Reading about sex work

[orneryjoe]

This 96-page report about sex work in New York city is available here. (http://www.sexworkersproject.org/publications/reports/behind-closed-doors/)

Quite interesting to browse and one begins to realise that sex work, whether in the USA or Asia, contains many similarities.

[orneryjoe]

Here's one interesting fact from the report:

In New York State, the five main subcategories of prostitution-related offenses are:
prostitution...
patronizing a prostitute...
promoting prostitution...
permitting prostitution...
and loitering for the purpose of engaging in a prostitution offense... (p25)

In Singapore, the first two are not illegal. Not sure about the third one. The fourth is an offence for hotel owners. The fifth is solicitation and is an offence in Singapore.

[igor88]

And your purpose of this thread ??? :rolleyes: :confused:

[orneryjoe]

The purpose of this thread? I suppose it is because the subject is inherently interesting. Many bros here (including myself) visit sex workers and it would be good to find out more about them.

It's true that the report is about sex workers in NY, but sex workers everywhere share certain similarities with one another.

Just thought it would be a nice change from personal recounts to something more objective, but I expect that not everyone will feel the same and I respect that. Please feel free to skip this thread if it doesn't interest you.

[orneryjoe]

The reason why some turn to sex work:

This research suggests that people from a wide range of socioeconomic levels, from low-income to working-class and middle-class, use sex work as a means of economic support. For example, many turn to prostitution and other sex work to earn income quickly when they find themselves in vulnerable economic situations. Others are forced or coerced into sex work. In many of these cases, economic instability plays a primary role in the reasons for which individuals are coerced into sex work. [p30, Behind Closed Doors]

Seems like the route to being a sex worker in NY also applies to their Asian sisters.

[waiwaiz]

And your purpose of this thread ??? :rolleyes: :confused:

to get zapped...:):)

[orneryjoe]

An interesting quote:

Patricia compared sex work to other low-wage occupations, saying: “What a waitress makes in a week can be made within two or three days [in prostitution]... Some people have jobs just to pay their bills, even if they don’t want them... They’re doing something they don’t want to do in exchange for money. I mean, to me, a housewife is a prostitute - she’s home taking care of the kids and you give your husband sex and he pays the bills... People have the misconception that you have to be on the corner to be a sex worker ... When you get in, it is just hard to get out because the money is so easy.” [p33, Behind Closed Doors]

[orneryjoe]

What sex workers think about their work:

Most participants had at least somewhat mixed feelings toward their involvement in sex work. Many described sex work as simultaneously a positive, flexible arrangement and a degrading situation. Angie says, “I’m wondering if I’m going to ever do anything else. When my kids turn older, will they see their momma as a whore? I hope not.” However, even Dana, despite all the violence and indignities that she has experienced as a prostitute, says, “[In other jobs, you are] enslaved by people, especially in minimum wage jobs. Bosses wield a lot of power. Sex work is better because you have your own hours and money and no boss to humiliate you.” [p35, Behind Closed Doors]

[igor88]

The purpose of this thread? I suppose it is because the subject is inherently interesting. Many bros here (including myself) visit sex workers and it would be good to find out more about them.

It's true that the report is about sex workers in NY, but sex workers everywhere share certain similarities with one another.



Why would you want to know a sex worker better ???? :confused: The whole idea of commercial sex is to fxxk & forget isn't it ?

[orneryjoe]

Why would you want to know a sex worker better ???? :confused: The whole idea of commercial sex is to fxxk & forget isn't it ?

Do you mean to say they are not worthy of being related to as human beings?

Admittedly, it would mostly be foolishness to fall in love with them but that shouldn't stop us from appreciating them and the services they provide.

I find them fascinating and have no qualms about wishing to understand them better. Besides, greater empathy might also get me better service.

[orneryjoe]

Not that I care, but for the unknown person who zapped me, saying that this thread is a "rubbish post", know that two other persons upped me for starting it - thanks, linus and topcook1.

With my points as they are now, I am under moderation status and there is little motivation for me to contribute frequently and constructively in this forum. The way I see it, the loss is to the forum and its members, and not to me.

This whole zapping thingy is inordinately stupid and absurd -- but life is full of inordinately stupid and absurd situations anyway, so I guess there's not much use complaining.

[orneryjoe]

When asked if they would like to leave sex work eventually, 69% (36 of 52) of respondents said “yes.” Many respondents voiced ambivalence about their continuing involvement with the sex industry. Candace, who is now transitioning out of sex work after 27 years in the business, said that why she stayed “is the mystery of life.” Bryan said he doesn’t know why he stays in the business and asks himself the same question every day. “It’s hard to give it up. How do you leave that?” clarifying that he was talking about “fun and the benefits.”

Leticia explained that, “Sometimes you feel like you can’t do nothing else. You get real addicted to it. I would love to work in a nice office or a hospital, but who has time to go to school? I have to pay bills, I take care of my momma—she’s sick. I just can’t afford to stop doing it. I probably will do this for a long time. I can’t even figure out when I would stop. That’s how bad it can get sometimes. You just feel like the shit won’t end, and that’s how I feel.”

Victoria also spoke of a feeling of inevitability about the work in her life: “It’s addicting. I can’t find myself in a square club. I can only do this if I gain square [non-sex worker] friends and I don’t have any square friends... it’s a lifestyle.”

Others were more pragmatic about why they stay and why they might leave, and some explained that they like the work itself. Sara said, “Being able to support myself . . . I will not shy away from saying ‘money.’ I find it more meaningful and easier to deal with than restaurant work. I like working one-on-one with people. When it goes well, I feel like I’m giving someone something that is needed and appreciated and makes me feel special. This is very narcissistic.” Celeste commented, “Because I love it and because I need the money.” Lily said, “The money, but sometimes it’s enjoyable.” Debbie commented on the lack of other options and also said that she likes the work: “I don’t have a resume and don’t know what I want to do. I like it. I worry about the future but I really enjoy the present.” Lisa noted that “I don’t know what my options are to change or do something better economically and it’s something I’m used to, easy. I’ve always thought it was easy, I may complain but I know that it’s easy because you don’t have to prepare reports or be totally punctual or be professional in that outside world way.”

However, others are strictly focused on the financial aspects. Luciana said that “the money is worth the risks. I want to stop, though, because I worry about the police.” She hopes to eventually open her own gym. Yoko acknowledges that “I said it’s not easy, but I’m getting used to it, not comfortable, I don’t [want] to use [the word] ‘comfortable.’” [p62, Behind Closed Doors]

[orneryjoe]

It is clear that the rewards of the sex industry were a barrier to leaving, especially considering the financial rewards. Most respondents described the money as the most rewarding aspect of their involvement with sex work. Leticia said, “Money, that’s it. Don’t believe nothing else they tell you. It’s just the money” and Maria agreed, “Money is the only thing. You meet a lot of people and are their therapist, they tell you their problems.”

Others offered different rewards as well as money. These often referred to personal interactions and “actually liking customers.” Lily reported that the greatest rewards of sex work were “Money, and the fact that everyone is happy to see me when I ‘go to work.’” Celeste said, “The most wonderful thing is getting to meet people that I never would have met otherwise and feeling very honored that they shared themselves with me.” Sean reported that he prided himself on reading people and what they want, and being able to please people. He was emotionally satisfied by being good enough in bed that people will call him back. It is “good for the ego.” Grace described her surprise at the many high class and high quality customers she met. They learned a lot from each other and shared with each other. She has a psychologist that loves to talk to her. Emiko said that she helps her clients speak up about their secrets and that her clients appreciate her work.

Freedom and autonomy were common themes separate but very related to financial gain. The interviews echoed a common theme, mentioning “freedom and financial security.” Viola’s biggest reward from the sex industry was “freedom, in your time and in doing freaky things. You’re the one in charge, never do anything you don’t want to do. Everything is fun and it’s fun money.”

Connie summed up this perspective well, saying that “I have no boss, no schedule.” [p63, Behind Closed Doors]

[igor88]

Do you mean to say they are not worthy of being related to as human beings?

Admittedly, it would mostly be foolishness to fall in love with them but that shouldn't stop us from appreciating them and the services they provide.

I find them fascinating and have no qualms about wishing to understand them better. Besides, greater empathy might also get me better service.

We all know why they are in this trade. You as a season chiongster should know. Why do you need to undrstand them better ? So that you can get free service from them? :eek: They are here for a purpose which I respect them for .

What would you get if you are able to understand them better ??? What do you hope to achieve ?

[Frankiestine]

I am surprise that for a country that promotes so many decadent life style and preaches human rights so vigorously, prostitution is actually illegal. Engaging the services of prostitute can get one arrested.

[orneryjoe]

We all know why they are in this trade. You as a season chiongster should know. Why do you need to undrstand them better ? So that you can get free service from them? :eek: They are here for a purpose which I respect them for .

What would you get if you are able to understand them better ??? What do you hope to achieve ?

Actually, I don't really hope to achieve anything. It just always helps to understand people better, sex workers or not. And if you understand the people whom you have dealings with better, it is a win-win situation because there will be more realistic expectations and less chances of miscommunication.

Also, it is a subject which I find inherently interesting. Since I spend quite a significant amount of time thinking about commercial sex, I may as well try to study it from a more objective angle.

Frankiestine...

You are right -- it is surprising to me as well that prostitution and patronizing prostitutes are offences in some parts of the USA. Whereas in supposedly strait-laced Singapore, both are not illegal. And in Sweden, the focus is to arrest the customers of sex workers because they believe this is the way to stop human trafficking. They are probably wrong.

[orneryjoe]

Correction about the intent of the Swedish law...

The focus of the Swedish law which criminalises the buying (but not the selling) of sexual services is their conviction that all prostitution constitutes male violence against women and therefore should not be tolerated. The law has in fact made the life of outdoor sex workers more difficult because demand has dropped and those clients that remain tend to be the more deviant kind. Also, much of the trade has gone underground and authorities find it difficult to gather knowledge about this sector.

[orneryjoe]

Thank you, heatingup, for upping my pts.

Here's (http://warrenssingapore.com/clubbing/orchard-towers-the-best-pickup-mall-in-singapore/prostitution-what-do-you-think/) an interesting essay about prostitution by the expat version of Sammyboy, Warren Carter.

For those who still do not know, Warren's site is also an interesting one and reflects the Westerner's perspective of what goes on in Singapore -- especially the sexual shenanigans.

[orneryjoe]

Since starting this thread, I have had 6 zaps and 4 ups. Thanks to the latter.

Seems like there is some interest -- even the negative ones show that -- better than being ignored. :D

To the person who zapped me because of the complaint that I was not being local enough -- we already know what the local scene is like -- thought it would be informative to also know what's going on in the rest of the world.

Was zapped twice with the remark: "waste of bandwidth". Looking at some of the inane posts in this section and elsewhere, I don't agree at all. But I suppose not everyone likes to read substantive posts. Am not aiming to please everyone anyway. Just a project which I personally find interesting.

[orneryjoe]

That essay about prostitution on Warren Carter's site.

Well... it is not written by Warren at all. This is obvious when comparing the essay style with the rest of Warren's postings.

Unfortunately, there was no attribution in Warren's site as to who the original author is. I left a note inquiring about this little detail, but the note was deleted. Perhaps he will get back to me later.

Anyways, did a search and discovered that the essay originated from here (http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/phil/blphil_eth_auto.htm).

I would hate to think that someone was being intellectually dishonest for claiming work that was not his own. That is plagiarism.

In any case, I should thank Warren for drawing my attention to the essay in the first place. And his own posts from his site are actually quite fascinating to read though they do seem to need tighter editing.

[Ah_Seow]

u see lar:cool:

[orneryjoe]

Here's (http://www.lauraagustin.com/red-light-raids-promote-online-brothels-singapore) a foreign social scientist commenting on the effect of AV raids in Geylang and other places. Not exactly fresh, but makes for interesting reading anyways.

[jacky43]

Is the creator of this thread, telling chiongsters to give up commercial sex? It is as difficult as climbing the tallest building but, reduce the visits and, getting SEX workers to leave after a short peiod of time. Not forgetting danger of HIV.

That might work, we looked at the sys, there will allways be a generation of clients and SEX workers. I leave another guy will replace, rather the authority need to manage the industry. So much so i think, not many SEX workers wanted permits, they would rather be FLs. It is not easy to catch them, so long as deals is done behind doors and nobody gets into harm.

Education and consulations, that work well but, it still cannot stop the system. Enforcement well! The authority i am sure, know where to round the vices. A group is illegal immigrants, they are running around and, no control in health issues. Which is not that important after the invention of CDs.

Ah! Maybe? Nick the root, i mean loan activites, i say authority arrested more such loan starks. Then, there will be lesser gamblings, lesser SEX workers taking loans. I could have go on, but no my advice to the SEX workers.

You take a shorter contract terms, pay up within the allocated period. No more turn and away from this. However, i think there are many, after swimming in the pool. They become operators and, groom the next gen of SEX workers. It is multi millions industry, and sad to write many outsiders wanting a share in it.

[jacky43]

I, am not too sure, after watching last eve episode, the Cheongsam waitress. I pretty much think, the producer wish to gave a statement. To me is not so much on slim, long legs Cheongsam PRC waitress.

The catch, the shot on Michelle Chia touchup ugly face, it scare the shits out of man customers. No way to show out Michelle's heart, so the angle have to be on her "ugly" face. I also saw the evil in it, what you guys think?

Morale of my story, SEX workers will freech, as much $ out from her customers. Within a given time, almost same with a PRC beer girl, might be what the producers really want to tell. Anyway, to me it shows the evil of these call girls, is time we wakeup and, cut down the vices.

At least manage the $, we cannot allow them to win.

[Frankiestine]

I don't think TS is trying to tell us to quit the sex scene. He is just offering us the different view each country takes towards prostitution.

[jacky43]

I see brother! Different views on SEX industry on countries, to me is all the same. One system nothing else, is like a MNC with branches in every countries.

Nobody can really understand it, is not complicated, no Sir! Rather is about where it started, where is leading how are we going to leave with this. We have SEX tours in all countries, seems the beginning of time, nothing changes.

Maybe? This country view on SEX industry, let it become old, the building and the people. No upgrading at RLD, show the people we don't encourage this, but it is acceptable here.

We are modern city, we also cannot change the industry. Infact it is expanding even newcomers know is around. It is only me.

[Goldmonkey]

I find this thread very confusing. :confused:

[orneryjoe]

This thread is what the title says: it is reading about sex work. It is not meant to persuade people not to patronise sex workers. It is not meant to convey a consistent point of view at all, which may be why someone said he/she found the thread confusing.

I scour the net hoping to find articles, essays and news about sex work and if I find them interesting enough, I post them here, sometimes with my added comments. These articles could be for or against sex work, or they could contain information about sex work and sex workers, locally or internationally. If anyone else cares to do the same, they are most welcome to use this thread.

6 ups and 12 zaps so far -- so it does show that people are strongly interested enough in the thread to express that they like it or hate it.

Because I am under moderation, my posts do not immediately appear after I press the Submit Reply button. This is quite frustrating and slows down the rate of postings but it teaches patience, and is perhaps a blessing in disguise.

Am here for the long haul.

[jacky43]

Just went i thought, PRC beer girls, shop assistants and, i saw PRC MILF bus drivers. The first 1? Introduce in a rally, Zhang Xiao Beo something like this.

The new batch is getting pretty, younger friendly which is what counts in customer service. This country SEX industry is moving up, brothers! We have a new batch of trainees, they saw the $ and, the ppl willing to part their hard cashs. Thanks to the donation drives, hope the authority would put a stop on it.

We see RLDs getting older, rundown liked a cowboy town, but within those walls. We have got, younger pretty and more willing SEX workers. This is not in the textbooks, only when you are part of this unholy sys you will see my point.

Then, the producers of the Noose, maybe? Is time you move forward, indirect speech of course. Reflect the new age, i think we are getting there.

[machoman]

Correction about the intent of the Swedish law...

The focus of the Swedish law which criminalises the buying (but not the selling) of sexual services is their conviction that all prostitution constitutes male violence against women and therefore should not be tolerated. The law has in fact made the life of outdoor sex workers more difficult because demand has dropped and those clients that remain tend to be the more deviant kind. Also, much of the trade has gone underground and authorities find it difficult to gather knowledge about this sector.

Actually, I thought that Sweden were extremely liberal in the sex industry but I was surprised when I recently learned from a Swede that a patron was deemed to have committed an offence if he engages the sex services.

What he told me was that the sex workers can sell but if you buy, you have broken the law. :eek:

[orneryjoe]

A fairly informative website that deals primarily with testosterone deficiency syndrome.

Information is presented simply and clearly.

Started by the Bayer HealthCare group.

[orneryjoe]

11 (not 12 -- there was one zap for another thread) zaps and 8 ups -- thanks Snuber and machoman for the latest ups.

Out of moderation zone too. Incentive to work slightly harder.

Cheers.

[orneryjoe]

Actually, I thought that Sweden were extremely liberal in the sex industry but I was surprised when I recently learned from a Swede that a patron was deemed to have committed an offence if he engages the sex services.

What he told me was that the sex workers can sell but if you buy, you have broken the law. :eek:

The Swedes are liberal and progressive -- just that their logic appears to be warped. Because they see sex work as exploitative of women, they have resorted to going after the men who patronise sex workers instead. The logic is warped because they have chosen to ignore the views of sex workers who insist on their right and freedom to work in the sex industry.

In religiously conservative countries such as those in the Middle East however, sex work is seen as a sin and therefore the buyer and seller are subject to punishment.

Netherlands is a good contrastive example of another liberal and progressive country where sex work is tolerated and regulated. This seems to make more rational sense than criminalisation which only drives the trade underground.

Like the Netherlands, Singapore is also a believer in the regulation of sex work. The recent spate of raids by the AV is probably a knee jerk reaction to Uncle Sam's charge that we are doing little to stop human trafficking. Which is probably false because most of the foreign sex workers here choose to come because of the money to be made.

Singapore is less liberal in the sense that pimping is also considered an offence whereas it is not so in the Netherlands.

[Glock]

Actually, I thought that Sweden were extremely liberal in the sex industry but I was surprised when I recently learned from a Swede that a patron was deemed to have committed an offence if he engages the sex services.

What he told me was that the sex workers can sell but if you buy, you have broken the law. :eek:

all this bullshit ... if I want to be in a place where women are always right and it is always the man's fault , i might as well stay in singapore :-P

at least singapore government understands reality a bit and allows some outlet (for men who are not stupid enough to marry a singapore woman . or are just lucky :D)


And your purpose of this thread ??? :rolleyes: :confused:

looks like the purpose of this thread is to actually have an adult discussion about sex , instead of schoolboys wasting time posting sex fantasy stories they come up with for other schoolboys to PCC , which for some reason seems to be what "Adult Discussions about Sex" seem to mostly be about

[orneryjoe]

Ouch... just received another zap with the rather strange remark that "you are only speaking for yourself".

This is obviously false, because I try to draw attention to some readings on sex work and include links to these readings to let the readings speak for themselves. I also include my own comments and so, yes, in the case of these comments I am speaking for myself. Who else should I be speaking for?

But perhaps the zapper meant that I am only speaking TO myself.

Again, not true because some bros have responded to this thread. Besides, even if I am speaking to myself, that would be fine because I start this thread to inform and interest others, but also as a personal project to examine a subject that I personally find interesting. One can actually learn a lot by talking to oneself!

[orneryjoe]

Warning -- this is a very substantive reading, so don't blame me if you get a headache from trying to understand it!

The reading may be found here (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1527-2001.2010.01126.x/pdf).

It is a philosophical essay that attempts to make out the case why prostitution is wrong.

The writer realises that all the usual, moralistic arguments against sex work are weak. Instead he attempts to use a rather subtle argument to show why prostitution is bad: that sex workers have to put up an act in their line of work and therefore sex work is not an authentic line of work that supports genuine self-expression.

The sex worker is also compared to the house negro ("Uncle Tom") whose compliance perpetuates the racist belief that blacks are, indeed, inferior. Likewise, sex workers perpetuate the belief that women are there to be taken advantage of.

Overall, I find the writer's objections to be extremely tenuous. For instance, arguably, the relationship between the buyer and seller of sex is in fact more equal than exploitative, and can even be based upon mutual respect. For the customer, the sex worker may be viewed as a valuable service provider even worthy of admiration.

The reading only serves to reinforce my belief that there are no really strong rational arguments that can be mounted against sex work.

[orneryjoe]

This is a substantive reading which is available here (http://www.lauraagustin.com/biblio/LAgustin_MigWorld.pdf).

It attempts to argue that there are legitimate reasons for the movement of workers from one country to another, and that the whole issue should not be simplified as one of pure trafficking.

As part of her case, the writer Laura M Augustin argues that sex work should be considered as a legitimate form of work (classified as "services") that now largely goes unrecognised in the European context.

I agree with her entirely.

[arsenal_84]

while is good to understand them but too often women in this trade have a very complicated mind or wrap logic if you ask me.
most started with the thought of quitting this trade eventually when they get older but how many has the will power to stop doing so ?
when the going gets tough, the lure of going back to sell their pussies again is after all a human reaction by them to survive against all odds.

[Frankiestine]

As part of her case, the writer Laura M Augustin argues that sex work should be considered as a legitimate form of work (classified as "services") that now largely goes unrecognised in the European context.
I agree with her entirely.

I can't remember where was it but I once read an article where the authorities wanted to tax sex workers for their earnings....even in little red dot here, the authorities do not tax okt cos it is considered immoral earnings and it is as good as giving themselves a slap in the face if they do tax. After all one of the laws under the woman charter actually states that it is an offense to live off a earning of a prostitute.

[orneryjoe]

Because sex work is legitimate in the Netherlands, some of the sex workers there pay taxes in exchange for the social benefits they enjoy.

[Frankiestine]

I did once went to Amsterdam and saw all the ladies on display in the windows. Indeed it was a real eye opener. Unfortunately I was there with OC for honeymoon so couldn't actually do anything else except viewing.

[jacky43]

I went thru all postings, including mine too, not a bad discussion. Somehow i think we overlooked an important part of this circle. I am talking about the direction from the LAW. The enforcement the AV, the gov of this country, how would they wish to move the industry to another level.

I am no Lawman, u see i would arrest the FLs and, discourage WLs from continue her trade. After she complete her payment, hold on we did come across many doc on TV. Indonesia gov had some sort of yellow ribbon projects to help ex call girls. The % that move on, we have no hard figures from them.

The OKTs, yes brothers! Those arrested charged in court, somehow i think they return back to former jobs. Now certain degress, the OKT fuctions as managers. Their contributions are many, we could imagine several of them but, we have not dare to touch on the important subject of all. Which is..

OKTs are making tons of $ from the system, upon arrested they paid fines serve time. So be it, this people are experience so much so, i guess the Poly young punk made more as a pimp then as an Engineer. Some people undertand the logic of all, but i would never go into a business of SIN.

AV had not arrested much OKTs, or perhaps they need this people to maintain the peace? Certain degrees, few WLs told me, they would never wish to go against her operators. So in the morale senses is wrong, not so on the sides of the authority.

[orneryjoe]

So far as the law is concerned, some governments are more moralistic than others. Traditionally religious communities such as those in the Middle East would frown upon sex work as being sinful and would thus prohibit such activities. Buyer and seller of sex work in such communities face fairly heavy punishment if caught.

In secular communities, the policy is usually one of tolerance and containment. There is the tacit recognition that sex work is a function of supply and demand. At the same time, it may also be perceived as a nuisance if it threatens to intrude upon conventional social life -- thus the ban on solicitation in Singapore, for instance. The policy of containment is also out of respect for the religious and moralistic sensitivities of some of the citizens within such communities.

In some developed communities, any kind of sex work is perceived as demeaning against women, whether or not the women in the trade realise it. One consequence of such a perception is the prosecution of buyers, but not sellers of sex work, since the latter are perceived as victims. Sweden is one country which adopts such an "advanced" attitude.

In my version of an ideal world, sex work is seen as having a legitimate place in society. Sex workers are recognised as providers of a valuable service operating discreetly so as not to be a public nuisance. No one should be forced into the trade and all sex workers should be at least 18 years old.

Just my preliminary thoughts about the issue.

[chuckiedick]

So far as the law is concerned, some governments are more moralistic than others. Traditionally religious communities such as those in the Middle East would frown upon sex work as being sinful and would thus prohibit such activities. Buyer and seller of sex work in such communities face fairly heavy punishment if caught.

In secular communities, the policy is usually one of tolerance and containment. There is the tacit recognition that sex work is a function of supply and demand. At the same time, it may also be perceived as a nuisance if it threatens to intrude upon conventional social life -- thus the ban on solicitation in Singapore, for instance. The policy of containment is also out of respect for the religious and moralistic sensitivities of some of the citizens within such communities.

In some developed communities, any kind of sex work is perceived as demeaning against women, whether or not the women in the trade realise it. One consequence of such a perception is the prosecution of buyers, but not sellers of sex work, since the latter are perceived as victims. Sweden is one country which adopts such an "advanced" attitude.

In my version of an ideal world, sex work is seen as having a legitimate place in society. Sex workers are recognised as providers of a valuable service operating discreetly so as not to be a public nuisance. No one should be forced into the trade and all sex workers should be at least 18 years old.

Just my preliminary thoughts about the issue.


Kindly please do not put such thought out in the open. :eek: Some people might have some ideas about it. :mad: :rolleyes:

[orneryjoe]

I enjoyed reading this (http://www.alternet.org/sex/148948/?page=entire) story, and I think it makes a lot of sense.

[orneryjoe]

Zaps (specifically for this thread only): 14
Ups (Ditto): 9

Thank you for all responses, positive and negative.

Great to have people joining in the conversation too.

Cheers to all.

[orneryjoe]

This (http://www.economist.com/debate/days/view/572) is a debate featured in the Economist magazine.

Note that the debate is in 5 parts. Aside from the presenters, take heed also of the guest posts and the ground reaction as the debate proceeds.

Learn and enjoy.

[orneryjoe]

"Increasingly, governments are realising that paid sex is impossible to eradicate, and that it is better to concentrate on keeping the business clean, safe and inconspicuous."
[The Economist, Sex for sale, legally, July 11th, 2003]

The full story is available for reading here (http://www.economist.com/node/1919372).

[orneryjoe]

...that discreet transaction between two people in private. If there's no evidence that it harms others, then the state should let them get on with it. People should be allowed to buy and sell whatever they like, including their own bodies. Prostitution may be a grubby business, but it's not the government's.
The Economist, Sept 2nd, 2004

Read the full story here (http://www.economist.com/node/3151258).

[orneryjoe]

"Trafficking is in fact very rare, says Mr Tillbrook. The great majority of sex workers travel to Britain under their own steam, with full knowledge of what they will be doing when they get there (although, like many immigrants, they may have a rose-tinted view of their working conditions). A much smaller number fall into prostitution after finding it hard to make ends meet through more respectable jobs; for some non-EU workers, there will be smugglers' debts to repay. By far the smallest group, according to Mr Tillbrook, consists of those tricked or coerced into the trade."
(The Economist, Sept 2nd 2004)

The same situation is probably true in Singapore as well.

[sgjoey]

Sex workers perform a very useful social role, and yet are often unjustly persecuted and scorned.

Read this article (http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-taboo/the-moral-significance-of-sex-workers-and-people-with-disabilities) to get a more balanced perspective of the whole issue.

[sgjoey]

Interesting blog on sex work, by sex workers... (http://lettersfromworkinggirls.blogspot.sg/)

[sgjoey]

Here's some information of a Singapore NGO that champions the rights of sex workers...

http://theprojectx.org/

[sgjoey]

The world of elite escorts....

http://nypost.com/2013/12/01/my-life-as-a-call-girl/