Onus on men to verify prostitute is above 18 ??

[Fcuks69]

Not sure if Bros have had a chance to read the above in today’s newspaper. It appears that the law is putting the responsibility on the customer (guys) to check the age of the girls they engaged for sexual service.

We all know that the guy will only check the girls’ age if he truly suspect that the girl is underage. Otherwise we would probably let it go and from experience, most of the time age of girls could easily be covered with makeup and dressing which make them appears older.

Furthermore the girl themselves is unlikely to cooperate to such verification as it requires them to produce formal documents (eg. passport/ic). The reason being these documents are likely to bear other personal information. IMHO, the only person that will be able to check the age of girls is the OKTs themselves.

While such the legislation is not comprehensible, perhaps it is an alternate way for the authority to keep unlicensed commercial sex at bay or another Woman Charter thingy.

[donk08]

Seems like a really big issue, more to worry abt when cheonging...sigh

[Cerberus]

it is your choice.....i'm sure you won't want to take the risk of ending up in court n have your pictures smeared all over the newspaper.....

either patronise legal house or go overseas.

[sgonly]

I think I read somewhere at that even if you have sex with a minor oversea, you are still liable here .... not sure if it is true.

it is your choice..........

either patronise legal house or go overseas.

[eastofsg]

yap, that's right.

I think I read somewhere at that even if you have sex with a minor oversea, you are still liable here .... not sure if it is true.

[DreamOfLust]

yap, that's right.

what if the minor is a non-PR or non-singaporean... like you fuck underage myanmar or thai girls... counted??

[ataraxia]

It's a strict liability offence for offenders above 21. What onus is there?

[asdfghjkl]

yeah, so long as the girl or boy is underaged, you kenna. thats the law.

[Johnston]

The burden of proof is always on the Fucker not the Fuckee, and even if the Fuckee had managed to procure fake identity documents stating that she is of the age of consent, you are still up shit creek without a paddle if you fuck the Fuckee....

As far as i know however if she signed an affidavit stating that she is of the age of consent and then she ISNT - then she is in a whole world of shit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affidavit

For the quick people : Affidavit = a piece of paper saying u SUMPAH that whatever is in the paper is the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth - amituofo :rolleyes:

[jonden]

Always safer to ask than not to, I have once asked only to find out girl was 17, I paid her a tip and told her guy was not going to happen, he was not happy but i was not going to get in jail for a bonk

[Stud00]

This would be interesting:

Picture this funny scenario:

You are in the hotel room with this hot chick, you guys are frenching like no tomorrow, stripping each others clothes off, and just before you do the deed, you pause and: "Stop, can i see your ic please?"

WTF??!?! Come on, how anti climax can that be, for me? when i do it, even stopping for a condom is so darn @#@#@!#!!!!!!!!!!

[ShaneLenny]

It is a big wayang lah,only they want to catch or dun wan to catch only.Majority of male in CS got do young girls they meet,especially when touring the Ministry of Orgy and Entertainment(MOE).

Anyway.judging from the number of civil servants who were arrested,this is either a wayang to show that they are doing their job OR

there was an earthquake somewhere in the Civil Service,some faction took out another faction and this is their method of officially flushing out those that got taken out OR

Big Kor Kor decided to save on the pensions of some Civil Servants.As usual,they can go drive taxi after they come out. .:o

[smlee]

This would be interesting:

Picture this funny scenario:

You are in the hotel room with this hot chick, you guys are frenching like no tomorrow, stripping each others clothes off, and just before you do the deed, you pause and: "Stop, can i see your ic please?"

WTF??!?! Come on, how anti climax can that be, for me? when i do it, even stopping for a condom is so darn @#@#@!#!!!!!!!!!!

you are suppose to check the IC before you start ....you save your life and also some $$:D

[wallace741852]

Honestly even if we ask some of the girls wont let you check their IC or passport?
Its not like what the FL is doing is legal...

Imagine if you do illegal soccer betting or 4D, the bookie ask you, i need to check your IC before placing the bet for you, will you let them check?

[Poet]

you are suppose to check the IC before you start ....you save your life and also some $$:D

If she uses her elder sister's IC, you are also doomed unless you are below 21.

[Cerberus]

I think I read somewhere at that even if you have sex with a minor oversea, you are still liable here .... not sure if it is true.

i didn't ask you visit underage chick in overseas......:mad:

[Apocalypse]

If she uses her elder sister's IC, you are also doomed unless you are below 21.

Then u do a video recording of you asking her, and she show you fake ic and/or sister's ic loh.

[2centsworth]

The onus is always on the man as the man tends to be the older party. I was reading the papers where it says Hotel 81 will reject renting the room if anyone is under 18. So under the new 2 IC rule, the hotel can help you verify the age of the lady indirectly. If she uses a fake ic, well, at least details of that fake ic is recorded in Hotel 81's system. Help prove that a reasonable level of checks has been done. If you want to be safe, guys who look for fl should stay away from girls under 21. Is there such a big difference between a 17 and 21 year old girl that you die die must risk yourself for the 17-18 year old girl?

[donk08]

Fr reading the thread seems like the onus is on the cheongster to verify irrespective of legal, underground, or whatever...

I have a question, what happens if you go to a legal joint and after bonking they find out that the person is underage?
Doesn't going to a legal establishment offer you any sort of protection at all?

[Stud00]

you are suppose to check the IC before you start ....you save your life and also some $$:D

HAHAHA!!! Thats funny..

[fogger2]

If u really wanna play safe and got the stomach for it... just need to drastically lower your standards (and budget!)... and go for GILF... :eek:

But otherwise, MILF ftw! :D

[slider_72]

I have a question, what happens if you go to a legal joint and after bonking they find out that the person is underage?
Doesn't going to a legal establishment offer you any sort of protection at all?

Sorry bro, even if it is a legal joint, you are still screwed if the girl is below 18.

At best, what you can hope for is for the Attorney General to exercise his discretion not to charge you on the basis that the CID screwed up and issued her with a green card when she is underaged.

Otherwise, you can use that as a mitigating factor to reduce the sentence, hopefully to a non-custodial sentence.

[19th]

In an overseas brothel, how can you tell if the guy is from Singapore?








Th first question he will ask the girl is "How old are you?"

[vanram]

I was caught by AV when coming out after a session from a location owned by an illegal OKT, Thai girls.. They took a statement from me and said that it's not wrong and that I am only signing a witness statement.

Unless they find out that the girl I bonked was below 18, in which case I'm screwed.. It was good that I picked a older girl, in her late 20s. It was an experience that I would not want to go thru again..

Ass luck to pick that OKT...

[sgonly]

Maybe I misread the last sentence of your post about "either patronise legal house or go overseas".

i didn't ask you visit underage chick in overseas......:mad:

[sgonly]

Wait Bro, if the "plain clothe" cannot pin point what you have done wrong, I don't think they have the right to stop you or ask you to sign anything.

Can any bros here verify please?


I was caught by AV when coming out after a session .. They took a statement from me and said that it's not wrong and that I am only signing a witness statement.

...

[Sirrus]

since when the law demonstrate that it protects the actual victim? the law is always unfair to either side.

[Sirrus]

Sorry bro, even if it is a legal joint, you are still screwed if the girl is below 18.

At best, what you can hope for is for the Attorney General to exercise his discretion not to charge you on the basis that the CID screwed up and issued her with a green card when she is underaged.

Otherwise, you can use that as a mitigating factor to reduce the sentence, hopefully to a non-custodial sentence.

so based on that theory. if some1 points a gun at your head and force to fuk a 10 year old. it is still your fault. great logic

[Rated-R]

yeah, so long as the girl or boy is underaged, you kenna. thats the law.

and yet, I been receiving PM from some bros who wanna exchange girls contacts with me. They ask me if I have girls ( age: 15,16,17 ) contacts fror them to bonk.

Siao!

[donk08]

got to be extra careful coz sometimes especially the younger looking working girls they always seem to add a couple of yrs to their actual age...so if they say 20 or 21 might be below 18! :eek:

[Hiddengems]

Ya need to be very careful since 1st case started.

[janus69]

Read this one by an ang mo lawyer, Paul Karl Lukacs, posted on Nomad Law.

“There is no defense unless doubt can be raised about whether or not the sex took place. The burden is on the man to satisfy that she is 18 by asking for a passport or identity papers,” said Chia Boon Teck, a local attorney.

While the relevant Penal Code statute for the johns provides for criminal sanctions ranging from a fine to seven years of imprisonment, Chia said “nine months plus or minus is the benchmark we are looking at.” In the 2009 case of Tan Chye Hin v. Public Prosecutor, the Singaporean High Court affirmed a sentence of nine months, noting that “a custodial sentence should be the norm in order to sufficiently deter such behavior and to reflect the seriousness of such offenses.” A fine and no imprisonment would be appropriate when the woman was just under 18 and presented convincing forged identity documents to the customer, the court noted.Looks like the men are looking at a sentence of nine months, unless they can show no sex happened.

[janus69]

If she uses her elder sister's IC, you are also doomed unless you are below 21.

If the girl is just below 18 and she looks like her elder sister, the man might just get fined without jail. But he will still have a criminal record, and the press can still get him.

[stone08]

Just a recent case , all three men got jail sentences for underaged viet pro .

[Fcuks69]

That's the thing I find hard to understand, if we guys do not suspect that the girl is underage and she does not appears to be, it is not likely we will check. Some Bros will say we may need to check all the girls we engage for service but I don’t think it is realistic either. We all know the girl is unlikely to show us their formal identification. In these situations, how could it be the customer who is liable to check?

Looks like the authority is telling us to stop all activities and remain home. Just wondering is this a woman charter thing?

If the girl is just below 18 and she looks like her elder sister, the man might just get fined without jail. But he will still have a criminal record, and the press can still get him.

[donk08]

Actually it seems like the authorities provide avenues for legal cheonging but wants to make it difficult so as not to promote this trade further in SG.

Seems like this is a trend moving forward as SG does not want to me known as a cheongster haven unlike some of our other neighbours... ;)

[sgonly]

Chill Bro, maybe the authority is trying to send the message that there is not much we can do about these.

That's the thing I find hard to understand, if we guys do not suspect that the girl is underage and she does not appears to be, it is not likely we will check. Some Bros will say we may need to check all the girls we engage for service but I don’t think it is realistic either. We all know the girl is unlikely to show us their formal identification. In these situations, how could it be the customer who is liable to check?

Looks like the authority is telling us to stop all activities and remain home. Just wondering is this a woman charter thing?

[stone08]

The message is to cheong legit whore houses only...

[slider_72]

so based on that theory. if some1 points a gun at your head and force to fuk a 10 year old. it is still your fault. great logic

Actually, no.

Section 94 of the Penal Code reads as follows:

"94. Except murder and offences against the State punishable with death, nothing is an offence which is done by a person who is compelled to do it by threats, which, at the time of doing it, reasonably cause the apprehension that instant death to that person or any other person will otherwise be the consequence:

Provided that the person doing the act did not of his own accord, or from a reasonable apprehension of harm to himself short of instant death, place himself in the situation by which he became subject to such constraint."

So if someone points a gun at your head and force you to fuck a 10 year old child, you have a complete defense because you were compelled to do it under the reasonable apprehension that instant death may result.

[Xgenre]

Actually, this topic has been discussed heavily in this forum over the past few years when the rules were changed. Please use the forum's search engine to search and you can easily find threads from a few years back on this topic.

From 2008, http://www.sammyboyforum.com/showthread.php?t=98904&highlight=under+18+commercial+sex

I've met a few young girls in the past. I did ask to see the IC and the ladies do show me. I just told them to show me a IC with their face and the first 2 digits of their IC number. So you see her face and see S90XXXX for example.

It is indeed weird to demand to see the IC of an ONS or gf but if you are meeting someone for commercial reasons, then the same rules for gfs/ONS don't apply to FLs right? It is not weird and it will not spoil the mood if you ask to see the IC of the FLs before any activity starts. With the new 2 IC rule now, I think it's much harder to 'accidentally' have a commercial sexual relationship with a FL as rooms will not be rented if the girl is U-18.

[donk08]

sigh as if life is not complicated enough, now wan to cheong also have to worry...:confused:

[batty]

The good news for the 48 men is that they will not be caned but they will be jailed if found guilty. It is also an offence in Singapore to groom minors for sex. This is called sexual grooming. If some one communicated with a minor through the internet/chatlines; encouraged and arranged with the minor to have sex, that is an offence. A variation of this was when the Police pretended to be a minor on the internet, and communicated with a man. The man thought he was internet chatting with a minor. I believe he arranged to meet the 'minor' for sex and was arrested. This is called Police entrapment or a sting. I came across this small news report in the Straits Times last year if I remember rightly.

[stone08]

School principal convicted already..think he is the first of the batch

[Spud_Boy]

School principal convicted already..think he is the first of the batch
sentenced to 9 weeks imprisonment...

sad case la...

[sgonly]

Well the current lady suspect that is the centre of this high profile event is ... drum roll ... Steph Thia Hwee Koon a.k.a. "Chantelle" from http://www.theviemodels.com.

If it is really her, all the 48er had her to thanks for the publicity.


sentenced to 9 weeks imprisonment...

sad case la...

[asdfghjkl]

A fine and no imprisonment would be appropriate when the woman was just under 18 and presented convincing forged identity documents to the customer, the court noted

WTF is this shit?? If the man did a check and the FL showed her NRIC which happened to be fake, the guy is still committing a crime?? :eek:

[Krazzie]

A mata friend of mine ever gave me these 2 lines of advice which applies to law in SG.

1. "If you wanna do something illegal, don't get caught."

2. "In the eyes of the law Ignorance does not mean innocence."

[Fcuks69]

Bro Krazzie,

Maybe you should post the following questions back to your mata friend as fruit for thoughts:

1. Is it legal for a girl to lie about her age to her OKT and cheat her customers saying that it is ok to have sex with her and get them into trouble only because she wants to satisfy her material needs?
2. If the girl, who is a minor, claims that she does not know she will get her customer into trouble for having sex with her, does that make her innocence?

Last question, shouldn’t the girl be the “guilty” accused and not the “protected” victim?

[peanut123]

it is your choice.....i'm sure you won't want to take the risk of ending up in court n have your pictures smeared all over the newspaper.....

either patronise legal house or go overseas.

As other bros pointed out, you are still liable for punishment in Sg even if you bonked her overseas and returned to Sg.

Secondly, if you are caught while overseas and jailed there, I shudder to think of the prison conditions in those poor under-developed countries where even the average citizen live in pretty shitty conditions. Can't imagine how dirty and disgusting the prisons are in those countries. Don't do it.

[nitin]

Sorry bro, even if it is a legal joint, you are still screwed if the girl is below 18.

At best, what you can hope for is for the Attorney General to exercise his discretion not to charge you on the basis that the CID screwed up and issued her with a green card when she is underaged.

Otherwise, you can use that as a mitigating factor to reduce the sentence, hopefully to a non-custodial sentence.


It is possible that some gals can be in fact below 18. They come from a country that do not have a proper system like SG where we register once we are born. Most of the gals come from the village where they are usually born at home. Some time register is a hassle then they may wait till they need to do a passport then they register. So they may be unsure of their age. Well it is possible. AV better not screw up about issuing yellow cards to these people otherwise it is a joke of our up & "mighty" AVs

[joemac21]

IMHO, this whole thing about “protecting the victim” and “destroy the accused” is already a wrong since day one. It is still controversial who the “victims” here are.

I think Channel News Asia’s Talking Point is putting a vote or something and will touch on the topic whether the girl should share responsibility. However, given the level of leniency given to the minor; I only question what responsibility will the girl be sharing. Will votes in a talk show change anything in our legal system?

[Sers]

the guys were saboed lah, the OKT also should have checked and not just see money. He also got those guys into trouble.

[2centsworth]

There is a poll on Channelnewasia and the question is Should prostitutes who misrepresent their age be held responsible? Please visit http://www.channelnewsasia.com/tp/ to cast your vote. So far, 88% of votes say prostitutes who misrepresent their age should be held responsible.

[zhongguoren]

It is possible that some gals can be in fact below 18. They come from a country that do not have a proper system like SG where we register once we are born. Most of the gals come from the village where they are usually born at home. Some time register is a hassle then they may wait till they need to do a passport then they register. So they may be unsure of their age. Well it is possible. AV better not screw up about issuing yellow cards to these people otherwise it is a joke of our up & "mighty" AVs

Thanks for this info...how about those big organisation/companies (ktv, sauna, MP etc) in china, bkk? Do you think they will check the age of their employees?

[dream888]

Cheong carefully!

Check FL's I/C or passport is useless unless for foreign FL, you know the foreign wordings on the foreign passport or I/C while the chances of local FL giving you a fake ID or elder Sis or another lady friend's ID is very high too.

IMHO, for people who cheong with FL, pls use a fake name and get foreign workers leaving our shores for good to purchase top up phone cards for you to be safe. (My opinion only, btw pls do not ask me for contacts of such foreign workers)

[nitin]

Thanks for this info...how about those big organisation/companies (ktv, sauna, MP etc) in china, bkk? Do you think they will check the age of their employees?

Bro zhong

As u said ktv, sauna, MP. These entertainment outlets should not provide sexual services. It is always done on discretion. So checks or no checks IMHO not really matter

[Fcuks69]

The in CNAs’ vote ends with 91.4% of the voters think that the girl should shared some responsibility when things go wrong. I just wonder who the remaining 8.6% who felt otherwise are. Actually, I feel that the vote should have been titled “Should prostitutes who misrepresent their age bear “full”responsibility instead of their customers?” or “Should OKTs who misrepresent their girls’ age bear responsibility instead of their customers?”. Perhaps the poll results would not have been far off.

As of now, I still can’t get my head around the fact that a person whom have been mislead/tricked into, and unknowingly, committing a crime could be found guilty in this country. While those who know the legal age yet enter the trade are tagged as “protected victims” and the people responsible of checking the girls’ age only needs to share responsibility with their customers.

Well, we will see if the poll result makes a difference or is this just another “we hear you and respect your views but the decision is final” thingy.

[peanut123]

Well, we will see if the poll result makes a difference or is this just another “we hear you and respect your views but the decision is final” thingy.

The poll will NOT make a difference. The gov will not bow to public pressure unless it is an election issue during GE. Even if they do amend the law, it will be too late for these poor 48 men who will be sentenced according to the current laws.

[Fcuks69]

Yeah, so it is another “we hear you and respect your views but our decision is final” thing, right? A new form of lip services perhaps?

The laws today are pretty comprehensive though nothing is prefect. Hence, trying to amend and prefect it may not address all the issues. Therefore, I think it is important to realise that it is not about how humans write the law but rather how we apply it.

[sgonly]

2 more back in court according to newspaper yesterday, so far 3 down, 45 more to go.

sentenced to 9 weeks imprisonment...

sad case la...