A point of Law...

[sammyboyfor]

I'm a taxi driver. One of my daily bookings involves driving a legal whore from her home to Geylang.

Am I committing a crime?

[hi2u]

I'm a taxi driver. One of my daily bookings involves driving a legal whore from her home to Geylang.

Am I committing a crime?

You are just doing your job as a taxi driver, am I not right? XD

[Cuntworth]

Just pick and send nothing wrg... It's an honest job..

[hi2u]

Just pick and send nothing wrg... It's an honest job..

For a while I thought you asking for pic again LOL

[oxeso]

Am I committing a crime?
If her service sucks, yes boss.. :D

[HornyKingKong]

Boss,
you said "legal whore". should be Ok.

[sammyboyfor]

You are just doing your job as a taxi driver, am I not right? XD

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

[Ironpole]

Like that if people sell her things also considered living off immoral earnings? Ie food, necessities? If she take bus. How? SMRT or bus driver living off immoral earnings? Heh. Cannot be lah.

Cheers

[ah rat]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

Got pics to share :)

For a while I thought you asking for pic again LOL

He dare not ask :D

[gunner77]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

When she engage you as full time driver to drive her to work/home, this is already a legal binding contract. There is no element of illegality involved. The obligations of both parties doesn't break the law. Your obligations is to drive her from point A to point B. Her obligations is to pay you for the service you provided.

"Living off immoral earnings" is a statutory law under the Women's Charter. The simplest way to interpret this law is where you received money for the act of prostitution.

Have you ever wonder why the legal houses in Geylang doesn't get charge for "living off immoral earnings"? Very simple. The houses in Geylang is legal because they were just merely providing the rooms,beds,facilities for the prostitutes to do their services. The money received from the prostitutes are for amenities provided by the houses.

The illegal ones are charged under this law because they don't provide any amenities for the prostitutes to do their business and yet received their money. Thus, the term, "living off the immoral earnings of prostitution"

Your duties as driver is as per your actual employment scope. It doesn't even come close to "living off the immoral earnings of prostitutes".

Hope this clarifies. ;)

[bigbirdbird]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.


Just doing your job as a hired driver Boss ;)



The illegal ones are charged under this law because they don't provide any amenities for the prostitutes to do their business and yet received their money. Thus, the term, "living off the immoral earnings of prostitution"

Your duties as driver is as per your actual employment scope. It doesn't even come close to "living off the immoral earnings of prostitutes".

Hope this clarifies.


Well said bro ;)

[Cuntworth]

Got pics to share :)



He dare not ask :D
Not that I dun dare to ask but the reply from boss will be "dun have "... Why ask when I know the answer Liao :D

[lionelmessy]

Even if she is an illegal pro, no fault also.

Im a taxi driver, somebody book me everyday and i also wont ask her what she is working as. Im just earning my taxi fare not taking comm out of her income.

[strikeback4]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

haha funny question.... nothing wrong

Its not like you rob or steal.... She pay you for driving her to and fro.... she is not paying you for any illegal things (Unless you provide some special in the taxi :p)

[bochapsing]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

boss, i guess u r fine as long as she doesn't hire u to drive her all the way to her bed.... :D

[sammyboyfor]

haha funny question.... nothing wrong

Its not like you rob or steal.... She pay you for driving her to and fro.... she is not paying you for any illegal things (Unless you provide some special in the taxi :p)

Ok so now I quit my job as a driver and start a website like this one which is obviously deemed to be illegal for some strange reason.

I employ a guy who does the database maintenance for me and also helps with graphic design, trouble shooting and server admin.

Am I committing an offense?

If I am then what about my technical support employee? Is he committing an offense?

[strikeback4]

Ok so now I quit my job as a driver and start a website like this one which is obviously deemed to be illegal for some strange reason.

I employ a guy who does the database maintenance for me and also helps with graphic design, trouble shooting and server admin.

Am I committing an offense?

If I am then what about my technical support employee? Is he committing an offense?

I believe if your forum purpose is just chit chat, its consider alright, but the moment you have banners promoting vice, its a different story

Remote communication service operated or maintained for offering or facilitating provision of sexual services, etc.
146A.—(1) A person in Singapore who, in the course of business, operates or maintains in Singapore a remote communication service that —
(a)
offers or facilitates the provision by a woman or girl to another person of sexual services in return for payment or reward; or
(b)
organises, manages or supervises the provision of sexual services referred to in paragraph (a), which may include inviting others to receive or participate in providing those services,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction —
(i)
to a fine not exceeding $3,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to both; and
(ii)
in the case of a second or subsequent conviction, to a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or to both.
(2) To avoid doubt, the reference in subsection (1) to the provision by a woman or girl to another person of sexual services in return for payment or reward includes, but is not limited to, a reference to the prostitution of the woman or girl.
(3) In subsection (1), “remote communication service” means —
(a)
any website, web service or Internet application;
(b)
any service using voice telephony;
(c)
any service using a messaging system; or
(d)
any other kind of electronic or other technology for facilitating communication.

[sammyboyfor]

I believe if your forum purpose is just chit chat, its consider alright, but the moment you have banners promoting vice, its a different story

Fair enough so I'm committing an offense but what about my subcontractors ie my host, my tech support, my graphic designer etc?

[auie]

To the tax men, as long as they don't have a share of your profit, you are committing an offense :p

[strikeback4]

Fair enough so I'm committing an offense but what about my subcontractors ie my host, my tech support, my graphic designer etc?

Usually only the owner/co-owner get charged

Unless you can provide proof that any employees of yours are involved in striking a deal with those stables or companies in advertising without the owner/co-owner knowledge

[tikokeong]

When she engage you as full time driver to drive her to work/home, this is already a legal binding contract. There is no element of illegality involved. The obligations of both parties doesn't break the law. Your obligations is to drive her from point A to point B. Her obligations is to pay you for the service you provided.

"Living off immoral earnings" is a statutory law under the Women's Charter. The simplest way to interpret this law is where you received money for the act of prostitution.

Have you ever wonder why the legal houses in Geylang doesn't get charge for "living off immoral earnings"? Very simple. The houses in Geylang is legal because they were just merely providing the rooms,beds,facilities for the prostitutes to do their services. The money received from the prostitutes are for amenities provided by the houses.

The illegal ones are charged under this law because they don't provide any amenities for the prostitutes to do their business and yet received their money. Thus, the term, "living off the immoral earnings of prostitution"

Your duties as driver is as per your actual employment scope. It doesn't even come close to "living off the immoral earnings of prostitutes".

Hope this clarifies. ;)

After all it still up to the IO and the girls to see what their statement if something happened. Example you rent your room to girls to stay other then that they are not doing anything illegal in the room you rent just for them to stay , Something happened they said you are the okt or the boss bingo you also will get charge for that also for immoral earning.

[newyorker88]

Boss Sam,

Are you still Burmese? Living in Nz?

[Jay Chou]

boss, i guess u r fine as long as she doesn't hire u to drive her all the way to her bed.... :D

Up u bro. 😊

[LoveTrumpsHate]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.


By your reasoning no one should sell goods to, or conduct any form of trade with a whore because that would mean earning money which she originally earned by "immoral" means.

[ttocaw]

Ok so now I quit my job as a driver and start a website like this one which is obviously deemed to be illegal for some strange reason.

I employ a guy who does the database maintenance for me and also helps with graphic design, trouble shooting and server admin.

Am I committing an offense?

If I am then what about my technical support employee? Is he committing an offense?



The subcontractor is providing you a service.

How you use that service is up to you.



The auntie sharpening knives at old airport road is providing a service. She can sharpen knives for anyone.

How you use that knife, is up to the individual.


Troubleshooting ? Before some mad man decides to hire a large truck to use it as a weapon of mass destruction, he gets it checked by a mechanic to make sure the engine starts.

He don't need to make his intentions known to the mechanic. Mechanic can just assume it's part of a regular maintenance checkup.


I design a picture of a mouth on a breast.

I can say this is a mother breastfeeding. I can also say this is a whore providing milk services. how you use that graphic, is also up to you.



Like facebook, sbf is but a platform for people to voluntarily share information.

people are streaming suicides and murders life on facebook now. extremist are using it to recruit militants etc etc. The admin remove them as much as they can, life goes on.


The difference between sbf and facebook is sbf is charging 'business' owners for their banners as revenue. The business owners are providing services which the authorities deem as illegal or immoral.


I would say this is the primary issue the authorities have with this site.

Redesign all the banners , use high class terms, social escorts. Not more whores,prostitutes . These are free lancers who are exchanging their time for your money. What you do behind closed doors is bla bla bla.....

No more terms such as whorehouse and happy ending massage.


It's call therapy and spa.


KTV ? change it to gentlemen's club.


Massage services, call it chiropractic services by professionals.



People post naked pictures of their wives and gfs - It's call body art.


Japanese art films, Korean film fest, etc.



I look forward to the day when i can see sbf pte ltd with it's own UEN No. paying CPF to employees , tax to the authorities and providing jobs to the unemployed locals.


donate some money and you can get your PBM. Shake hand with grassroots, take picture with politicians.


Maybe, just maybe. You might be president one day.



Paiseh, did i go out of point ? hahaha :D

[ibanezjem555]

Auntie sharpening knifes supplies generically is ok. If she sharpens and can see her customers planting them in the bushes to ready for gangfight.. she knows a crime (or something) is happening and obliged to tell the authorities.

Same for web-design.. can see what the webpage is used for plus source codes etc.

One defence is that the website is overseas where such activity is allowed and sub-con are globally talented artist (like David Gan & Jimmy Choo), recognised and hired by people internationally to do web/ graphic design. Purely business... and not classified as International Crime like Child Porn

But when sh*t hits the fan, all hell will break loose. Good defense and reason is irrelevant in witch-hunt. Just lie low and enjoy life quietly. ;)

Still can eat roti prata and lim teh tarik happily :D

[gunner77]

After all it still up to the IO and the girls to see what their statement if something happened. Example you rent your room to girls to stay other then that they are not doing anything illegal in the room you rent just for them to stay , Something happened they said you are the okt or the boss bingo you also will get charge for that also for immoral earning.

not true.. the prosecution have to prove the evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

furthermore, if the defendant did not receive a single cent, there is nothing to be scare of.

[newyorker88]

not true.. the prosecution have to prove the evidence beyond reasonable doubt.

furthermore, if the defendant did not receive a single cent, there is nothing to be scare of.

Think of chc, they claim they did not profit from it.

[sammyboyfor]

By your reasoning no one should sell goods to, or conduct any form of trade with a whore because that would mean earning money which she originally earned by "immoral" means.

It has nothing to do with "my reasoning". "My reasoning" is that those who promote vice should receive a medal of honor because it is such a vital service that no community can do without. I'm merely asking pertinent questions and seeking a spectrum of legal interpretations of current laws.

The other contentious issue regards what constitutes sufficient due diligence when it comes to checking a whore's age.

From past cases it is obvious that merely listing the age of the WL in an advert does not cut it.

That being the case it would be prudent to check a legal document eg passport, drivers's license or IC.

However she could be carrying forged documents so would a potential client be required to verify that the ID is genuine?

Many questions but no definitive answers.

One of the reasons why I brought up this issue is that I've lost most of moderators as a result the laksaboy arrests. I fully understand why nobody living in Singapore wants to risk going to jail. I argue that they are committing no crime because I don't pay them a cent. It's all voluntary work so in no way can they be accused of living off the immoral earnings of a whore.

However they worry that they can be charged for being part of vice website despite the fact that they are not receiving a cent in the "immoral" earnings of this sordid corner of cyberspace.

[strikeback4]

One of the reasons why I brought up this issue is that I've lost most of moderators as a result the laksaboy arrests. I fully understand why nobody living in Singapore wants to risk going to jail. I argue that they are committing no crime because I don't pay them a cent. It's all voluntary work so in no way can they be accused of living off the immoral earnings of a whore.

However they worry that they can be charged for being part of vice website despite the fact that they are not receiving a cent in the "immoral" earnings of this sordid corner of cyberspace.

Laksaboy case is very tricky especially since they got hack, resulting in 2 laksaboy websites (Original and hacker version) and during the process they were very aggressive in getting vice operators to promote on their website via ads/banners

It all boils down to what direction are you going to?

a) accepts adverts fee and risk getting charged 146a Remote communication service operated or maintained for offering or facilitating provision of sexual services, etc.

b) do not accept advert fees thus losing a source of income, but will not get charged as you're not promoting vice on your forum

You can also give a details do and don't to your moderators should they have the fear of getting arrested

eg (Just some examples so you get the rough idea)
Do : maintain the tidiness of forum but deleting duplicate post/thread... remove any undesirable post etc

Don't : help to promote vice (Posting repeatly on the forum[should be done by those vice operators and not the moderators])

[sammyboyfor]

b) do not accept advert fees thus losing a source of income, but will not get charged as you're not promoting vice on your forum


If you're willing to cover the shortfalls I'll take up your suggestion. :cool:

[strikeback4]

If you're willing to cover the shortfalls I'll take up your suggestion. :cool:

hahaha nice 1 Sam :eek:

anyway there is no win win situation in this case, that is why the boys in blue are so aggressively targeting your FL domes, your petain and Geylang section is all right because you're in no way promoting it online, all thread are just chit chats and discussion only

[perfection89]

Ok she now she's hired me as a full time driver. I have to drive her to work daily and drive her home when she's done for the day.

Am I living off immoral earnings or am I just doing my job as a driver unassociated with what she does at work.

Sorry. Edited because I never read the all the posts before posting.
Anyway here's my two cents for the entire thing based on some experience.


1. Assuming that you know a guywho knows a guy who does advertisement and marketing (not based in Singapore).
2. You sign up to be an affiliate of the company showing ads but you have no control over the ads content. (Think Google Adsense)
3. You show your banners and so on from that company.
4. That company is committing the crime if found to be sex related not the website.
5. Member's posting are their own content. If got takedown notice, then have to takedown loh bo bian. New members can always create new content.
6. Moderators like members of this forum are just members. Unless they themselves promote vice stuff, then they are liable, otherwise don't think there's anything wrong.
7. Same for the people who provide 3rd party services (e.g. hosting, dba, etc etc.)
8. if gahmen want to catch, would have just come up with any rules to liap liao.. no point thinking the loopholes because the gahmen sure will close it or jump over it.

[perfection89]

Laksaboy case is very tricky especially since they got hack, resulting in 2 laksaboy websites (Original and hacker version) and during the process they were very aggressive in getting vice operators to promote on their website via ads/banners

It all boils down to what direction are you going to?

a) accepts adverts fee and risk getting charged 146a Remote communication service operated or maintained for offering or facilitating provision of sexual services, etc.

b) do not accept advert fees thus losing a source of income, but will not get charged as you're not promoting vice on your forum

You can also give a details do and don't to your moderators should they have the fear of getting arrested

eg (Just some examples so you get the rough idea)
Do : maintain the tidiness of forum but deleting duplicate post/thread... remove any undesirable post etc

Don't : help to promote vice (Posting repeatly on the forum[should be done by those vice operators and not the moderators])


I got a question though. What about those marketing affiliate sites (e.g. google adsense, nuffnang or those nonsense marketing company)? If you serve their ads and suddenly got adult content, are you in trouble for it?


If that's the case, then many blogs and tumblrs and so on will gone case liao.

[strikeback4]

I got a question though. What about those marketing affiliate sites (e.g. google adsense, nuffnang or those nonsense marketing company)? If you serve their ads and suddenly got adult content, are you in trouble for it?


If that's the case, then many blogs and tumblrs and so on will gone case liao.

It depend on your definition on what kind of "adult content" as there are wide variety and different kinds may and may not be against the law

[hehfun]

It may sound I am stating the obvious.
I believe this will involve lengthy discussions, questions, private details etc...
back and fore.

1. Would anyone with a lawyer license pm our boss Sam regarding his enquiries.
2. Boss Sam, you might really need to seek legal council from a licensed lawyer
for all your enquiries if you think this is a serious issue.

We are rooting for you.