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JB Delights - Great Action just across the Causeway [NEW] For those who don't like to do it in their own backyard but still want to be close to home.

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  #1201  
Old 31-10-2023, 11:48 PM
SmallBB SmallBB is offline
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Re: Great Services-Great Massages-Great Bonks

Kimmy. Had her for 12hrs outcall overnight end Sep.



Face: 10/10 (totally my type. Super duper cute face)
Body: 9/10 (slim but not curvy)
Boob: not gonna score, natural B, close to A
BBBJ: 8/10 (she will lick the balls)
FJ: 10/10 (her catbathing is crazy in a good way, pussy watery and wet)
GFE: 9/10

Again, she was recommended to me by the agent. She is 26yo instead of 23yo. She looks 90% same as the featured photo. The photo has a radiant filter on. She say those filter was put on by the okt to better market the girls. Can converse in simple english but most of the time is use google translate lol.

Booked her 10pm-10am but closer to the time, driver text me that she hasn't had dinner so i told driver can send her go eat first or takeaway then arrive 11pm i dont mind since my check out time is 12pm. Anw driver managed to arrive at 10.15pm (apparently she had her dinner back in hotel). Paid driver and she open the door and came out. Saw her and i was like oh my gosh, she is damn cute. She was wearing the bottom right pic outfit with a cardigan.

Walked her up to my condo apartment while doing light intro. Her profile put KTV so i thought she drinks, so had bought some beers prior but then she told me she dont drink but can drink abit. Well ok, not that I mind at most i drink the beer myself im ok with it. So after i down 1 can of beer, went shower and went for 1st shot.

Started out with me doing the work to get her ready. Her pussy is cleanly shaven and very nice to eat. She gets wet quite fast also. Quite shiok when she squirms around when licking her. After that, we swapped and she catbath me. It was so damn amazing... she licked me all over my body lol. Kissing her was shiok also, this might sound sick or disgusting but there is a sweet taste for her saliva. Is like eating honey.. maybe is attributed to her coke flavor vape.

Anyway, she ready, i ready, caps on and started with doggy. Her small round butt is a sight to look at when doing her behind. Afterwards, changed to missionary and the face she made while doing the deed is also a sight to look at. After finish, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet beneath her butt hehe.

Washed up and continue with the chatting. By then i had finished 4 cans of beer and she only drank half a can. Went for 2nd shot. Her catbath as amazing still but this type i catbath her also the same way she does. Ultimately ended up in 69 position and started off with her on top this time. Switched to missionary when she tired. Same thing but abit sad cannot grab her middle becos its really small hahah but the sight of her facial expression makes up for it. Came and then again, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet lol.

Washed up and we ordered grab food to eat cos both hungry already. So the cool part about her is, she didnt asked me any money for the food, she paid for it herself in cash lol. Plus point for personality. She took off her contact lens and wore glasses. Her with glasses on makes her cuteness up one level. Grab arrived, she went down to collect with me in her sleepwear. She ordered some extremely spicy glass noodles... too spicy for me so i didnt eat. So i ate the other side dishes. Cannot finish the food, so store it away and i finish the 5th and last can of beer while her half full can of beer still there and then went to sleep.

Next morning, i woke up at 9am and went to clean up and chill abit. Once done, went to snuggle with her and try to wake her up. Typically, most girls will continue to sleep but kimmy actually wakes up lol. Told her morning 3rd shot she ok but let her go wash up first. Once done, we did the same sequence as 2nd shot last night. Finished my shot and it is ard 10am. I thought times up and she is preparing to leave but then, she went to kitchen to heat up the leftover food last night and we ate together. She only left at 11.15am (stayed an hour longer).

She is by far the best girl that i had ovn outcall since Feb 2022 if discount her sibei small boobs.

Dmg: 950rm + 80rm transport
RTF: 1000% YES! Was head over heels for her when went back to SG, keep thinkinf about her but luckily managed to stop myself from falling further lol.
  #1202  
Old 31-10-2023, 11:57 PM
SmallBB SmallBB is offline
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Re: Great Services-Great Massages-Great Bonks

Quote:
Originally Posted by XiangQiang69 View Post
Not all Thai is good too . Photos heavily PS nowadays.Some super business SOP mode and set alarm one(massive cock blockers). Excellent Thai ladies like last time hard to come by or rarely comes JB .

Tried 4 vn so far . Low to Average experience so far one even got beer tummy one. I noticed they also list fake ages 3-5 years older. Not sure if this is more common for vn ? Mostly Pretty faces though communication is bad as most do not understand basic English .

Lao(big boobs) I only tried once . Excellent experience.
Think I lucked out on that one . Chemistry was pretty good as she speaks English well and I even RTF her .

Think it's harder to find good fucks nowaday in jb since nobody sharing reviews. Maybe I go kl and try during holidays.
Ya i agree as well... nobody sharing reviews nowadays for JB scene. Thats why i keep asking recommendation from my go to agent. Mind sharing the laos girl info via pm to me? Hahah! If she still in JB lah, otherwise dont need. My agent recommended one laos girl to me, but her looks not my type so i rejected him.
  #1203  
Old 01-11-2023, 11:27 AM
kcy69 kcy69 is offline
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Re: Great Services-Great Massages-Great Bonks

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
Kimmy. Had her for 12hrs outcall overnight end Sep.



Face: 10/10 (totally my type. Super duper cute face)
Body: 9/10 (slim but not curvy)
Boob: not gonna score, natural B, close to A
BBBJ: 8/10 (she will lick the balls)
FJ: 10/10 (her catbathing is crazy in a good way, pussy watery and wet)
GFE: 9/10

Again, she was recommended to me by the agent. She is 26yo instead of 23yo. She looks 90% same as the featured photo. The photo has a radiant filter on. She say those filter was put on by the okt to better market the girls. Can converse in simple english but most of the time is use google translate lol.

Booked her 10pm-10am but closer to the time, driver text me that she hasn't had dinner so i told driver can send her go eat first or takeaway then arrive 11pm i dont mind since my check out time is 12pm. Anw driver managed to arrive at 10.15pm (apparently she had her dinner back in hotel). Paid driver and she open the door and came out. Saw her and i was like oh my gosh, she is damn cute. She was wearing the bottom right pic outfit with a cardigan.

Walked her up to my condo apartment while doing light intro. Her profile put KTV so i thought she drinks, so had bought some beers prior but then she told me she dont drink but can drink abit. Well ok, not that I mind at most i drink the beer myself im ok with it. So after i down 1 can of beer, went shower and went for 1st shot.

Started out with me doing the work to get her ready. Her pussy is cleanly shaven and very nice to eat. She gets wet quite fast also. Quite shiok when she squirms around when licking her. After that, we swapped and she catbath me. It was so damn amazing... she licked me all over my body lol. Kissing her was shiok also, this might sound sick or disgusting but there is a sweet taste for her saliva. Is like eating honey.. maybe is attributed to her coke flavor vape.

Anyway, she ready, i ready, caps on and started with doggy. Her small round butt is a sight to look at when doing her behind. Afterwards, changed to missionary and the face she made while doing the deed is also a sight to look at. After finish, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet beneath her butt hehe.

Washed up and continue with the chatting. By then i had finished 4 cans of beer and she only drank half a can. Went for 2nd shot. Her catbath as amazing still but this type i catbath her also the same way she does. Ultimately ended up in 69 position and started off with her on top this time. Switched to missionary when she tired. Same thing but abit sad cannot grab her middle becos its really small hahah but the sight of her facial expression makes up for it. Came and then again, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet lol.

Washed up and we ordered grab food to eat cos both hungry already. So the cool part about her is, she didnt asked me any money for the food, she paid for it herself in cash lol. Plus point for personality. She took off her contact lens and wore glasses. Her with glasses on makes her cuteness up one level. Grab arrived, she went down to collect with me in her sleepwear. She ordered some extremely spicy glass noodles... too spicy for me so i didnt eat. So i ate the other side dishes. Cannot finish the food, so store it away and i finish the 5th and last can of beer while her half full can of beer still there and then went to sleep.

Next morning, i woke up at 9am and went to clean up and chill abit. Once done, went to snuggle with her and try to wake her up. Typically, most girls will continue to sleep but kimmy actually wakes up lol. Told her morning 3rd shot she ok but let her go wash up first. Once done, we did the same sequence as 2nd shot last night. Finished my shot and it is ard 10am. I thought times up and she is preparing to leave but then, she went to kitchen to heat up the leftover food last night and we ate together. She only left at 11.15am (stayed an hour longer).

She is by far the best girl that i had ovn outcall since Feb 2022 if discount her sibei small boobs.

Dmg: 950rm + 80rm transport
RTF: 1000% YES! Was head over heels for her when went back to SG, keep thinkinf about her but luckily managed to stop myself from falling further lol.
concur your FR, did tried her few days back, super horny & playful girl. even allow me to paint her pussy and on the same times poke my finger into her asshole and make her more ecstacy. Frenching like no tomorrow. One of the best girl at the moments.
  #1204  
Old 01-11-2023, 08:39 PM
XiangQiang69 XiangQiang69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
Ya i agree as well... nobody sharing reviews nowadays for JB scene. Thats why i keep asking recommendation from my go to agent. Mind sharing the laos girl info via pm to me? Hahah! If she still in JB lah, otherwise dont need. My agent recommended one laos girl to me, but her looks not my type so i rejected him.

Rina I think . Left already. Thinking of going try pp or mm but no time .

Usually no point asking the agent for recommendations as they anyhow recommend one as most never seen or meet the girls in person. Stats also faked one especially age.


That's why spa resemblance is closest to pic instead of hotel one .

I turning to spa nowadays cause honestly quite tired of those hotel pic PS bait . Lucky if can even get 70-80% likeness with no tummy or deformity attitude problem, 90% or more is strike lottery lol .

Scam until scared already . No reliable reviews available also .

Sad depressing time for chiongsters .

Sometimes stay home fap also better than to deal with such nonsense.

Last edited by XiangQiang69; 02-11-2023 at 12:51 AM.
  #1205  
Old 02-11-2023, 11:39 AM
top319 top319 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
Kimmy. Had her for 12hrs outcall overnight end Sep.



Face: 10/10 (totally my type. Super duper cute face)
Body: 9/10 (slim but not curvy)
Boob: not gonna score, natural B, close to A
BBBJ: 8/10 (she will lick the balls)
FJ: 10/10 (her catbathing is crazy in a good way, pussy watery and wet)
GFE: 9/10

Again, she was recommended to me by the agent. She is 26yo instead of 23yo. She looks 90% same as the featured photo. The photo has a radiant filter on. She say those filter was put on by the okt to better market the girls. Can converse in simple english but most of the time is use google translate lol.

Booked her 10pm-10am but closer to the time, driver text me that she hasn't had dinner so i told driver can send her go eat first or takeaway then arrive 11pm i dont mind since my check out time is 12pm. Anw driver managed to arrive at 10.15pm (apparently she had her dinner back in hotel). Paid driver and she open the door and came out. Saw her and i was like oh my gosh, she is damn cute. She was wearing the bottom right pic outfit with a cardigan.

Walked her up to my condo apartment while doing light intro. Her profile put KTV so i thought she drinks, so had bought some beers prior but then she told me she dont drink but can drink abit. Well ok, not that I mind at most i drink the beer myself im ok with it. So after i down 1 can of beer, went shower and went for 1st shot.

Started out with me doing the work to get her ready. Her pussy is cleanly shaven and very nice to eat. She gets wet quite fast also. Quite shiok when she squirms around when licking her. After that, we swapped and she catbath me. It was so damn amazing... she licked me all over my body lol. Kissing her was shiok also, this might sound sick or disgusting but there is a sweet taste for her saliva. Is like eating honey.. maybe is attributed to her coke flavor vape.

Anyway, she ready, i ready, caps on and started with doggy. Her small round butt is a sight to look at when doing her behind. Afterwards, changed to missionary and the face she made while doing the deed is also a sight to look at. After finish, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet beneath her butt hehe.

Washed up and continue with the chatting. By then i had finished 4 cans of beer and she only drank half a can. Went for 2nd shot. Her catbath as amazing still but this type i catbath her also the same way she does. Ultimately ended up in 69 position and started off with her on top this time. Switched to missionary when she tired. Same thing but abit sad cannot grab her middle becos its really small hahah but the sight of her facial expression makes up for it. Came and then again, there was a patch of dampness on the bedsheet lol.

Washed up and we ordered grab food to eat cos both hungry already. So the cool part about her is, she didnt asked me any money for the food, she paid for it herself in cash lol. Plus point for personality. She took off her contact lens and wore glasses. Her with glasses on makes her cuteness up one level. Grab arrived, she went down to collect with me in her sleepwear. She ordered some extremely spicy glass noodles... too spicy for me so i didnt eat. So i ate the other side dishes. Cannot finish the food, so store it away and i finish the 5th and last can of beer while her half full can of beer still there and then went to sleep.

Next morning, i woke up at 9am and went to clean up and chill abit. Once done, went to snuggle with her and try to wake her up. Typically, most girls will continue to sleep but kimmy actually wakes up lol. Told her morning 3rd shot she ok but let her go wash up first. Once done, we did the same sequence as 2nd shot last night. Finished my shot and it is ard 10am. I thought times up and she is preparing to leave but then, she went to kitchen to heat up the leftover food last night and we ate together. She only left at 11.15am (stayed an hour longer).

She is by far the best girl that i had ovn outcall since Feb 2022 if discount her sibei small boobs.

Dmg: 950rm + 80rm transport
RTF: 1000% YES! Was head over heels for her when went back to SG, keep thinkinf about her but luckily managed to stop myself from falling further lol.
Hi bro, mind sharing your agent contact? So I can book.
  #1206  
Old 02-11-2023, 02:17 PM
mily_cly mily_cly is offline
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Re: Great Services-Great Massages-Great Bonks

Hi bro,

Mind sharing with me too. Tq in advance
  #1207  
Old 02-11-2023, 10:56 PM
XiangQiang69 XiangQiang69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by top319 View Post
Hi bro, mind sharing your agent contact? So I can book.

There's not real any sole agent or pimp. The gals image are spread in telegram through different stables or pimps to earn commission but some will mark it up slightly higher than others.

I usually just go for the cheapest pimp or agent whichever you like to call 😜


Go check out sb Malaysia offical telegram. The sites and links pretty much there .

Or go wishct02 if you understand Chinese.
  #1208  
Old 03-11-2023, 07:45 AM
top319 top319 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XiangQiang69 View Post
There's not real any sole agent or pimp. The gals image are spread in telegram through different stables or pimps to earn commission but some will mark it up slightly higher than others.

I usually just go for the cheapest pimp or agent whichever you like to call 😜


Go check out sb Malaysia offical telegram. The sites and links pretty much there .

Or go wishct02 if you understand Chinese.
Ohhh so it's different as compared to sg. Okok thanks bro
  #1209  
Old 05-11-2023, 01:29 AM
Deepgalaxy Deepgalaxy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
Thanks bro for your review here. I actually booked her for outcall ovn 12hr after seeing your review. Please do reply so i can up pts to you. She is really a gem.

Looks: 8/10 (she is 32yo, born 1991. Just imagine and add the aging facial signs to her photos)
Body: 10/10 Curvy with slight tummy (I agree, but my cup of tea)
Boob: 20/10 heavenly bewbies
BBBJ: 6/10 for me, her BJ not rly good.
FJ: 8/10 she is very accomodating to different position but her riding no good and no stamina to ride also
GFE: 10/10
Attitude: 10/10

Now the market, the photos are 80% catfishing, fake profile info and the service not as good compared to last year. So agent bro recommended me to take Angie but she booked already. So saw this FR and book Miki instead. She told me she is 27yo but after some rapport building, then she come clean with me and show me her passport. She is 32yo born 1991.

I would say, if u want pretty young face one then dont bother but if u want service, Miki's service is top-notch, the best that I had so far. I gave high score for her body is because she wore the calvin klein sports panty and paired with her butt, is really like a real life emoticon of the peach icon in whatsapp. Damn perky and beautiful. Really makes you go crazy.

The action starts straight during shower. We cleanse our mouth first before showering, so during shower is crazy amount of hugging, b2b rubbing, frenching and light bbbj. Think i spent like 25mins in shower. After shower move to bed, started off with me servicing her. Her bewbies is origial C.. big and very soft... first time I can suck on two nips in one go. Damn shiok. Fulfilled my fantasy. Her breathe, mouth and pussy no smell so it makes all the foreplay extremely pleasant.

Her bbbj no feel one... so swap to 69 for abit then caps on with her on top first. Her on top skill also not very good so i told her let me do the work and swapped. Doggy then finish in missionary.

After shower, went to chit chat over beer. I had bought 6 cans of carlsberg from lotus, cost only 39rm and 2 bottles of soju. Chatted halfway started getting touchy and did it in the living room sofa. Her pussy very nice to finger and i think she get wet quite easily or maybe becos abit high from the alcohol. Her pussy is cleanly shaved as well.

Continue drink finished the beer, bom bom one more time and sleep. Next morning woke up, cuddle and rub our bodies abit and try for last shot. But i think drank too much beer or tired, no stamina to let out the last shot. Tipped her and sent her off. Her english is ok, so still can communicate with her. Her kissing is non-stop throughout the night. I think she will be in JB until 20aug that week.

As mentioned, highly recommend her for her service. Dmg is rm950 +80rm transport
Bro, able to share she is under which stable/web? Able to share?
  #1210  
Old 05-11-2023, 10:02 AM
SmallBB SmallBB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepgalaxy View Post
Bro, able to share she is under which stable/web? Able to share?
She not in JB liao. Went back already. Typically, for JB scene, other than the spa, there is no direct stable, have to book thru agents. These stables get these agents to help them sell the girls and get customers. So these agents will market girls from the many stables. If you want the telegram channel i use to book the girls, u can drop me a pm
  #1211  
Old 06-11-2023, 02:48 AM
Naiseguy94 Naiseguy94 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
She not in JB liao. Went back already. Typically, for JB scene, other than the spa, there is no direct stable, have to book thru agents. These stables get these agents to help them sell the girls and get customers. So these agents will market girls from the many stables. If you want the telegram channel i use to book the girls, u can drop me a pm
Dropped you a PM
  #1212  
Old 06-11-2023, 10:29 AM
Dblend Dblend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
Thanks bro for your review here. I actually booked her for outcall ovn 12hr after seeing your review. Please do reply so i can up pts to you. She is really a gem.

Looks: 8/10 (she is 32yo, born 1991. Just imagine and add the aging facial signs to her photos)
Body: 10/10 Curvy with slight tummy (I agree, but my cup of tea)
Boob: 20/10 heavenly bewbies
BBBJ: 6/10 for me, her BJ not rly good.
FJ: 8/10 she is very accomodating to different position but her riding no good and no stamina to ride also
GFE: 10/10
Attitude: 10/10

Now the market, the photos are 80% catfishing, fake profile info and the service not as good compared to last year. So agent bro recommended me to take Angie but she booked already. So saw this FR and book Miki instead. She told me she is 27yo but after some rapport building, then she come clean with me and show me her passport. She is 32yo born 1991.

I would say, if u want pretty young face one then dont bother but if u want service, Miki's service is top-notch, the best that I had so far. I gave high score for her body is because she wore the calvin klein sports panty and paired with her butt, is really like a real life emoticon of the peach icon in whatsapp. Damn perky and beautiful. Really makes you go crazy.

The action starts straight during shower. We cleanse our mouth first before showering, so during shower is crazy amount of hugging, b2b rubbing, frenching and light bbbj. Think i spent like 25mins in shower. After shower move to bed, started off with me servicing her. Her bewbies is origial C.. big and very soft... first time I can suck on two nips in one go. Damn shiok. Fulfilled my fantasy. Her breathe, mouth and pussy no smell so it makes all the foreplay extremely pleasant.

Her bbbj no feel one... so swap to 69 for abit then caps on with her on top first. Her on top skill also not very good so i told her let me do the work and swapped. Doggy then finish in missionary.

After shower, went to chit chat over beer. I had bought 6 cans of carlsberg from lotus, cost only 39rm and 2 bottles of soju. Chatted halfway started getting touchy and did it in the living room sofa. Her pussy very nice to finger and i think she get wet quite easily or maybe becos abit high from the alcohol. Her pussy is cleanly shaved as well.

Continue drink finished the beer, bom bom one more time and sleep. Next morning woke up, cuddle and rub our bodies abit and try for last shot. But i think drank too much beer or tired, no stamina to let out the last shot. Tipped her and sent her off. Her english is ok, so still can communicate with her. Her kissing is non-stop throughout the night. I think she will be in JB until 20aug that week.

As mentioned, highly recommend her for her service. Dmg is rm950 +80rm transport

I try Angie before. She horny af when she get drunk. Her service was top tier. Her stamina also very good
  #1213  
Old 07-11-2023, 04:43 AM
RyanW RyanW is offline
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Exclamation Re: Great Services-Great Massages-Great Bonks

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Location : NZ SPA
Service :Overnight
Lady :I98 Lia

Nz Spa - 整体服务满意度 -
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🤍
回头是必然的😁

最后谢谢各位花时间看完小弟的测评,我很少登录,会写这篇感想纯属一时兴起,希望有帮助到各位 兄弟做选择 。另外请各位兄弟好好珍惜Lia小姐,她值得被温柔对待👍

有缘再见 Adios ~


Second time visit NZspa ;
This time try using English to write a review
Girl : T33
Look : 9/10 (beautiful as gem)
Body :8/10 (Slim body ,got tattoo on her back,natural A-cup size Boobs )
Service technique: 7/10 (moaning sound very aroused,can feel that she trying her best to do service)
Attitude:7/10 (talkative, friendly and her english is quite good )
Package : Overnight P1 (damage--rm900 with hotel room & facilities )

Visit Nz for second time this weekend, staff over there are all mild-mannered ,so feel free ask them if brother got any question;For the food, this time try the Wat Dan Hor ,taste ok but not good enough compare to normal hawker’s. I suggest Brothers try the Toast of their Kitchen, that one quite good, crunchy and taste good.

By the way,this time finally got chance to stay overnight with T33, i am so excited to be honest(t33 looks so beautiful
First,i bring her back to my room from Nz spa after 10pm(overnight usually start after 10pm),we chit chat and shower first, i found out she is quite talkative during our conversation.
Then we start our main job (no need to describe lah~ im sure brother can do better than me haha)

! But ! everything seems well before we finish our ‘first shot’,after our first round(i havent come out yet)i suggest her to rest a bit then we continue.
But i dont know why she fall asleep after i come back from washroom. I understand maybe she too tired(?)so i let her sleep first and hope we can finish our job in later morning(as i mention just now ,i havent come yet TwT)
So.... i try my best to convince myself go sleep first and we can do one more time later....
After 6hour ,i wake up first and straight to washroom brush my teeth. she then wake up and go washroom also,as i hope we can start our second round,she dressed up and pack her thing and say goodbye to me......?!
(I was like .... Are you serious?! at the moment)
All my mood suddenly drop to zero at the moment she tell me goodbye.....

I dont know its my problem or not.....maybe we got misunderstanding ?or maybe she dont like me?or maybe its my fault that i didnt tell her clearly that we need a ‘second round’ before she going back....?

In a nutshell, i spend rm900 on a girl ,but at the end i need to do it myself.....


Last but not least, i have to say it is quite Disapointed in this second time OVN experience.....
Maybe i will try one more time with other girl next time
  #1214  
Old 07-11-2023, 09:37 AM
GonefortheWeek GonefortheWeek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallBB View Post
She not in JB liao. Went back already. Typically, for JB scene, other than the spa, there is no direct stable, have to book thru agents. These stables get these agents to help them sell the girls and get customers. So these agents will market girls from the many stables. If you want the telegram channel i use to book the girls, u can drop me a pm
Maybe i know which condo or airbnb you book? Can PM the app or number? Thanks bro..wanna get book a nice discreet condo for ovn 😂😂
  #1215  
Old 07-11-2023, 10:03 PM
XiangQiang69 XiangQiang69 is offline
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Originally Posted by GonefortheWeek View Post
Maybe i know which condo or airbnb you book? Can PM the app or number? Thanks bro..wanna get book a nice discreet condo for ovn 😂😂
Try agoda got discount. Airbnb nowadays expensive .
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