Price to pay for helping Matters of the Heart

[colins]

Greetings all bros. Just like to pen down a story which happened not too long ago.

The purpose of this thread is to open up a discussion on the extend of help given to suffering bros in this forum. I have been thinking about this for a while, I guess now is the time to relate it and ask for your objective view. Do feel free to comment.

[colins]

I was introduced to a bro (Bro A) by another bro (Bro B) who have been trying to help him through his misery about mistrusting a prc girl. Apparently Bro A got to know a prc WL and was KC big time. Ok the usual story follows and he was in deep shit over both career and life. In summary, he still continually yearns for her and that was why Bro B went in to try to cure his disillusioned state.

2 other friends of Bro B both gave bad review on Bro A. They basically washed hands. Bro B then asked me if this guy can be helped, I replied no harm trying, any improvement will be an improvement cos he is so very 'down-there' now. So we met up for a couple of coffee sessions and proceeded to use both hard and soft means of pushing and pulling him away from his then current state. Bro B went to the point of introducing another girl to Bro A, and started to teach him the arts of KC. So Bro A now knows Singer C and finally went for supper with her once. I sort of supported Bro B's effort using my usual subtle ways by giving encouragement and providing an insight on what Bro A lacks.

Things were in order until Bro B heard the news from Bro A about his prc girl wanted to return to sg and was asking Bro A for money (for air tickets). Bro A seemed to be devastated, saying his demon is finally coming back, Bro B then teached him the steps to counter this and the mentality that should be employed against the effects of KC.

On the 3rd day since the news arrived, Bro B said Bro A is fucked big time and he wanted to give up all contacts with Bro A. When I probed further, Bro B told me Bro A was again trying to escape reality by doing heavy boozing, something that he did when his girl first left him. Bro B was thoroughly disappointed and intended to cut off all communications with Bro A. After hearing this, I called Bro A and got the same story. I said can you not go and deceive yourself and why after so much talk, you still decide to put this KC upon yourself?

I told Bro B, let me try and help him. He still got hope, maybe just weak-willed but let's look deeper into his character and see where are the holes to patch. Bro B thought for a while and said if you go, I will go. So we arranged one online session and another coffee session. The next day, I told Bro A my assessment of him and told him how he can help himself. Bro B graciously entered into the online conversation (well he is the sort who mean what he said about leaving Bro A alone) and both of us were doing our best to push him along. Through sideline conversations, I told Bro B that I've decided that setting a goal would be proper in helping him, in the end the only person who can really help him is himself. So we placed a bet - all of us get a girl (non WL or anyone from nightscene) to a dinner set 2 weeks later.

The purpose of this bet was to help him rebuild his self confidence and create a drive to work towards it. The prize was, both Bro B and I will coordinate and give him his best chance to get this girl, in helping him do all manners of wooing and lastly to give him all respect he should deserve during the dinner to help his chance with his girl. Either way, whether he really do bring a girl or not, he would have benefitted from the whole exercise. At the last note, Bro B suggested the failure to meet this bet is to pay for the dinner. Fair enough.

The coffee session came after a week into the bet. I remembered it was raining heavily that night during coffee, I just came off from a drink, limping (need to walk with a tongkat at that time) in the rain to catch a cab. When Bro B and I reached, Bro A said he won't be coming. The cab fare would be too expensive. I withheld an explosion (thinking of the money he hung for Singer C) and calmly told him to come, cos everybody was there waiting. Bro A finally came, and we started our session until well after midnight. We originally planned this meeting as a followup to see Bro A's progress and to give him support and help to meet the challenge. Bro A made no progress, so we suggested place to go, things to do and how to meet a girl. After the session, Bro B told me, aiyah cannot make it liao, he himself dun wan to help
himself, he will just run away from his problem just like he did all this while. I suggested patience.

So came that night of dinner. Bro B and I met for coffee couple of hours before dinner so we can have a chat and see the girls whom we would be bringing. The girls came and among the chattings, Bro B, with his own suspicion in his mind, suggested that I should contact Bro A. No one picked up his mobile. After a while, Bro A called and said he would be late, his mum was sick and his constant attention was required.

Bro B flipped and said see I told you. I said patience again, Bro A said he would be late for a while only, he will sms me in a while like he said he would. Bro B gave me a disgusted look and said if his excuse become yours, then you are fucked. Dinner went on and we started to have fun (but thats beyond this story la).

True enough, Bro A never called or sms again. Bro B later explained, he hasn't solved his first problem, which is to overcome himself to meet the challenge, the first act of escapism (from his own lack of self confidence) enables him to escape this meeting and everything else he does from now on will still be to escape, dun expect him to call anymore or see him on msn. I said I have learnt that there are some people which you can never help, if you do it can only bring you down. I suggested that maybe money was a concern to him and that he knew he couldn't pay and there started a fresh round of escape. So I am willing to lose the bet on his behalf. We were cool for a while until Bro B found out that Bro A had invited Singer C on that same night of dinner bet and actually sms her to contemplate 卖场 for the last session, in order to go for a drink at Boat Quay. So what happened to mum? What happened to the excuse of not having enough money? Worst thing was, Singer C was so annoyed with his sms to her saying that 如果我帮你卖场你要怎么报答我. So Singer C predictably decided to wash both hands and stop communicating with him.

[colins]

Yesterday, I called Bro A for 2 purposes. First explain my effort, second collect my dues. I said, when I issued the challenge, I treated you like a bro and my intention had been very clear and you accepted it. We already said very openly, if no money tell us, if no girl tell us, if got any problem tell us. In my mind, I am prepared to pay for the dinner, even cab fare to return the girl back home. I did not ask if he has a job for no purpose. You choose to let yourself down when all you need to do is to help yourself or at least appear before us. We will probably laugh about it but we still treat you like a bro as long as you show some effort. Time after time, there were so many chances and yet you want to be the person who stays home and rot. I ended by saying just return me the money and let's quit this thing altogether. If there is anything that can help you, it is not the richest person in the world, it is yourself.

I related this experience for several purposes actually. Well since I've learnt a lesson I might as well share it. For many occasions in the forum, we see a bro in need and we stretch our hands out. Some bros may decide that they can just fuck the poor fellow and call him names. Some bros just entertain themselves. But those who are genuine in helping must assess if that help is asked for, if not necessary. We are all running our busy lives and sometimes we see a purpose to drop a little things on hand to pull someone up. Now I believe that the purpose must also be reciprocated. Else you might just worsen the situation or create some hole for yourself to step into.

Thank you for reading this long post.

[xyz1001]

Bro colin, must really salute your patience.

To me, the person must have the will to help himself and i must see some good nature in him. Bro A is at the edge of the cliff already. There are thousands of excuses to think of but lying abt mum sick is like cursing her.

Recently, my fren A2, is in similar situation. My good fren and me has been trying to meet him after he came back from SZ. But he refused to meet us. Like that how to help him? Currently, we think he should have wipe up his saving, hope he will not run into credits debt or do silly things like selling house.

[DO_YOU_BJ]

When wanting to help one person, for watever reasons, one must ascertain a very important virtue.
That the person in need of helping is deserving.
Sincerity must be felt in order for help to come true.
One's WILL decides one fate.
Helping someone is selflessness, thus very tiring and also, means, even through such BETRAYALS, does one stop helping?
Guess depending on who's the helper and who's the helpee
Well, me aint no saint or holy man.
I'll help but there's a limit.
If i sense insincerity from the other party, i'll walk away & buy the popcorn to see the end.

Bro Colins & XYZ, you have stretched out your hand, but in the event it causes your hands to be amputated, FUCK IT! Let the mutha fuka burn.......

Like i said in a post, some were born to screw, some were born to be screwed.
They've chosen their path so be it. You have initiated to help, thus even wif this intention you'll receive merits for this life...dun worry.....
After all, at the end of the day, if they peril at their own hand, it wont affect you the slightest bit rite.......you'll still sleep peacefully at nite! I know i will

[ekemono]

Bro Collins,

Read your encounters and I admire your kindness extended to that particular bro. However, I hope you can understand that reciprocation is never part of the package in helping someone, or even to the extend, loving someone.
As long as your heart tells you it is the right thing to do, then do it without expecting anything. It will make you feel better.

From what I have read, you have done your part fully, and it is what matters. In life we cannot expect another person to response accordingly to our due effort. If right now you dun feel you owe anyone anything, you are good.

[siopu99]

Bro Colins,

Sigh... you good man... going through great efforts to try to help Bro A.

But alas.... sigh and double sigh...

There's one thing I always believe in...

"you can't help a person who doesn't want to be helped"

If Bro A doesn't see the shit hole he is digging for himself and chooses to stay in it with his feet rooted in, using elephants also can't pull him out.

Only when the pain is painful enough will he see his shitty situation. Help him at that point when he asked for help. It will be more worth the efforts and easier too.

Maybe Bro A kenna kong tao?? or he too tao kong?? Only he knows.

I salute you and Bro B for all the efforts put in to help a bro in need.

[Wooden_Handle]

Bro colins, you deserved the recognition in helping the poorer one, but sometimes they may not noticed their own state, and they are still living in their dream world. Please keep trying and never give up, cos I think 1 day he will be in even worst mess emotionally.

To lighten this thread up, I got a real story for a laugh:
There is this patient went for emergency dept after office hour with relatives, the care-giver examined him and prescribed necessary medicine. The next evening the care-giver on duty again and met the same patient, asked him why come again, and did he take the medicine, he said yes, but not working cos the medicine was different color from what he used to take. The care-giver was shocked but recovered and take out the leaftlets of tablets available and asked the patient to choose, finally after long discussion they settled something similar and he didnt see the patient again the next evening.

Therefore, I think its quite hard to really guage the human mind, their thoughts and it will need the time and patience to get them open up at the right instance.

[colins]

Ah bros...thank you for your kind words and encouragements. To be fair, the thread is more to bring about an understanding towards people who needs help. The details are there so you can make a judgement and come to your conclusion. Actually the main purpose comes from my believe that when a hand is stretched out for help, it has to be looked upon. The only point I was stressing on is that a limit should be created based on what you can do, and also (now that I realised) what this person can do.

To say that I wasn't affected is a lie. Putting down all these in words is my closure, so now I can carry on knowing more and that has to be shared with all. Personally, I encourage the spirit of helping one another, not that it has to be reciprocated in kind (as bro eke said), but it has to be reciprocated with an effort. All I need to see is that there should be some level of determination in trying to solve his own problem. You can only push the horse to the water, you can't pump the water into the horse.

The source of this belief, is when I had problems some time ago, nobody came to my help. I din ask for it actually. How nice it would be to have somebody there to give me clarity, the sufferings would have been much less. Recently I just gone thru another bout of problems but Bro B was there. You can't imagine the difference between both. One relationship was 9 months long and this relationship was 4 years. In retrospect, this recent problem was much much more easier to go thru, although the feelings involved is a lot deeper. I can sleep with a smile on the day of discovering the betrayal, and I din apply any mind or action for revenge. If this can be the way more bros solve their problems, we can use it and teach everybody. This is what I am after.

[DO_YOU_BJ]

Originally Posted by colins

Recently I just gone thru another bout of problems but Bro B was there. You can't imagine the difference between both. One relationship was 9 months long and this relationship was 4 years. In retrospect, this recent problem was much much more easier to go thru, although the feelings involved is a lot deeper. I can sleep with a smile on the day of discovering the betrayal, and I din apply any mind or action for revenge. If this can be the way more bros solve their problems, we can use it and teach everybody. This is what I am after.

A clear mind is a dangerous mind!
Welcome to the world of the clear minded

[colins]

Originally Posted by DO_YOU_BJ

A clear mind is a dangerous mind!
Welcome to the world of the clear minded

Thank you, bro DYBJ. Not there yet, but the feeling is GOOD!

Thanks bro wooden handle for your interesting story, yes your point abt requiring time and patience to open them up is very true.

Thanks bro siopu99, I like your point in saying that a person needs a pain so painful that it will force him to change. Sometimes you'll see a person choosing not to see the light and pretend that something else had happen. This in actual fact is also a form of self preservation required to survive in this world. However, if this continue to happen a few times, the person will just gain the immunity to accept shit after shit. Until a time when this person do not know how to stand up for himself, he lost all hope of succeeding in anything he wants to do. This is wasting a life.

Thanks bro eke, yes a closure is good. I have never exited from a friendship before. And probably against Bro B's good wishes I can still say to Bro A, that anytime you want a listening ear, I am here. I have no expectation of him and wish him well. Btw, reciprocation of my effort means that he must come out with a willingness to help himself, the rest is unimportant cos I am doing this becos I want to do it, not becos I am working as a paid counsellor.

Thanks bro xyz, as usual you are clearer than me, you know you need to see a good nature in that person. Maybe for your friend, you guys should wipe out his savings yourself, then after this shit is over, give everything back to him. haha juz kidding ok.

cheers bros

[xyz1001]

Originally Posted by colins

However, if this continue to happen a few times, the person will just gain the immunity to accept shit after shit. Until a time when this person do not know how to stand up for himself, he lost all hope of succeeding in anything he wants to do. This is wasting a life.

This happens when one allows fate to push him around. And it will continue to push until he is able to determine his self worth, his belief. Life is never fair at one time but is fair all the time. Bro A has no one to blame for his life to be so messed up becoz he ALLOW that to happen, he allow himself to be pushed around. So he can quit complaining.

Originally Posted by colins

Maybe for your friend, you guys should wipe out his savings yourself, then after this shit is over, give everything back to him. haha juz kidding ok.

The fee is never too expensive if he remember and learn from this experience, for there are still many many years that he can live life fullest.

Cheers

[aczeta76]

Bro Colin...

Kudos to you and your friend for lending a hand to fallen bros..

A lot of people like to escape into similar problems and cycles as they fear different things. Some like Bro DYBJ said are "犯贱“ and they juz like the feelings of being treated like that.

To those people, if u are too nice to them, their auto reaction is to become more shitty to you as they cannot tahan the good things people do to them... machiam like they do not deserve it.

Being a bro and helping is one thing, like the PRCs WL, many need help but we have limited time and resources so we have to make sure we spend these on those who deserve our "investment"

To a good % of bros here, they are all thinking adults and at all times there is this little nagging thought in their minds which already tells them wat they want to do

So they will selectively hear only the "good things" they want too.... worst, your friendship to them may not mean anything sometimes.

So...be kind with an open eye.

[ekemono]

Originally Posted by DO_YOU_BJ

A clear mind is a dangerous mind!
Welcome to the world of the clear minded

Didn't follow up much on this statement so I got a bit lost there.
Am I in the right direction to say that it is about detaching ourselves emotionally that may hinder our logical thinking, face and accept the facts and move on in the direction for our own interest?

[pewpew]

Sometime, you tried to protect your buddies from being harm, in return you will get nothing but setbacks.

Just remember, true buddies are hard to find so... Even if there are road blocks inbetween the process of helping, hope you can keep trying.

Reason = Buddies