Middle class Singaporean no more.....Sigh

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by IronCurtain

Let's recall this article showing that there are 100,000 millionaires in Singapore.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/bus...eport-20140619


Sure, there are 100k people to be serviced , but how many percent of the population is that?
Take citizen population as 3 million, then its 3 percent.
Take entire population as 5 million, thats 2 percent.

If your 15 years cash reserve amounts to a million dollars, you are easily in the top 3 percent of the population

If you call yourself middle class, the other 97 percent of the population is low class lah

A cogent argument. Looks like my thread is gaining traction. LoL.

Well, like I wrote earlier, I am intimately familiar with our wealth scene. These reports are common. You can choose to believe them. The sg I know is property mad. Many park their last hundred thousand into a property and hence fall off the $1m investible funds criteria. Bank balance low. Properties 4. Excluded in surveys (usually done with private banks). Er....you do know if I decide to plonk all mine into properties, I am not in the top 3% anymore and if another bro decides to liquidate his asset, he is in the top 3%, right?

Look around to see how many condos there are in sg.

[topcook1]

Guess now the discussion has deviate out from middle class crunch into High and rich classes liao....

[davidwee]

All the illegal china money raise property prices, even those tiny ass studio apartment super expensive in geylang. Don't need to think middle class, lower class how to afford HDB that cannot be passed down.
Since young my fear is that sg end up like hongkong. Good infrastructure but cost of living high and tiny boxes to live in.
I have some customers who hate the idea of HDB and buy parking space to live in boats, cost wise not alot more and far but at least you get to keep it.

I don't agree with the common mindset, marry and apply for HDB. I think it's smarter to rent and invest what you have. Sure rent increases every 1-2 years, but end of the day you will have more options whether you want to plonk down in sg or find a better place. I hear Greece is opening up

[kraam]

hmm...good to put down our egos here in this thread and learn stuff about money-making. camping.

[Orchinno]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

A cogent argument. Looks like my thread is gaining traction. LoL.

Well, like I wrote earlier, I am intimately familiar with our wealth scene. These reports are common. You can choose to believe them. The sg I know is property mad. Many park their last hundred thousand into a property and hence fall off the $1m investible funds criteria. Bank balance low. Properties 4. Excluded in surveys (usually done with private banks). Er....you do know if I decide to plonk all mine into properties, I am not in the top 3% anymore and if another bro decides to liquidate his asset, he is in the top 3%, right?

Look around to see how many condos there are in sg.

Sorry, i am not going to bother with you anymore since you don't really need need advice from us poor people.

You keep looking over to the next hills and think "Darn that's higher than my hill". Go do a search under "We are the 99%". The person with a personal yacht is thinking that the guy with the Gulf jetstream is rich, while the guy with the jetstream thinks that guy with his own personal Caribbean island is rich. And all of them thinks Bill Gate is stupid for putting his money into Gates Foundation instead of passing it on to his kids.

All i know is that I am living happily now, enjoying my life and watching my children grow and I have factored in inflation into my lifestyle with depreciation of wealth every 10 years. When the time come to go, I will not hang on to this life, silently going into the night for another turn at the wheel that way I've come.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Orchinno

You keep looking over to the next hills and think "Darn that's higher than my hill". Go do a search under "We are the 99%". The person with a personal yacht is thinking that the guy with the Gulf jetstream is rich, while the guy with the jetstream thinks that guy with his own personal Caribbean island is rich. And all of them thinks Bill Gate is stupid for putting his money into Gates Foundation instead of passing it on to his kids.

We aren't all like that. The reason why I put in some effort to get off the treadmill is simply because I didn't want to be beholden to others anymore.

If you're salaried there is always a boss to report to and you have to put up with his whims, fancies, idiosyncrasies and insecurities. You might also have to put up with his wife, mistress and spoilt brat children.

You slog away at his beck and call but the efforts and skills you put into the businesses are not being used to build your own wealth. It's like renting property. You pay the landlord's mortgage but get none of the capital gains.

My aim was to achieve financial independence so that I could live my own life. It had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses.

[Orchinno]

Originally Posted by sammyboyfor

We aren't all like that. The reason why I put in some effort to get off the treadmill is simply because I didn't want to be beholden to others anymore.

If you're salaried there is always a boss to report to and you have to put up with his whims, fancies, idiosyncrasies and insecurities. You might also have to put up with his wife, mistress and spoilt brat children.

You slog away at his beck and call but the efforts and skills you put into the businesses are not being used to build your own wealth. It's like renting property. You pay the landlord's mortgage but get none of the capital gains.

My aim was to achieve financial independence so that I could live my own life. It had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses.

Hi Founding Brother,

Cool to get a reply from you. Agree totally with you. Not sure about the TS though, base on the way he reveals information and talks.

Freedom is illusory and there's no absolute freedom. My background is in history, and all I can say is that the world as we know it and the economy and such is also illusory.

Most people like to plan on a straight line, thinking that life goes on the same way it does the previous. We may be lucky and is living on a plateau where everything is predictable. But history tells me that the world is full of inflection points where the path history takes veer off very suddenly. All the wealth may not help when those inflection points come.

So live life happily, and never bow down to unreasonable power. If my boss try to do his beck and call, I hiu lan him. The worse he can do is fire me. I am not his slave nor property.

[MagicFingers]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

Aiyo. You have no idea bro. Never belittle a coffee shop. 5 hawkers each paying $6k a month rental gives you $30k a month. On a standard 3% ROI, thats $12m. Some are willing to go in at less than 3% because it is a limited asset and a safe way to park money. When rents increase, you can work out their corresponding value. The next time you go into a coffee shop, work out mathematically how rich that owner is.

I know a ex char kway teow seller. Started off with owning one coffee shop. Then the next. And the next. Today he owns an entire shopping mall in Australia. Valued at >A$100m. He is now in his 80s. Stays in a humble corner terrace in a outskirt location in sg near his coffee shop. His sons manage his empire.

How do I know? Lets just say I am intimately familiar with private banking. You guys have no idea how many super rich there are in Sg. The more I know, the more I feel like so small like a cockroach, waiting to be crushed by giants. And there are people here on paid salaries who think $8k a month expenses is good. Geez! Look around to see how others accumulate wealth.

At first, this thread was about Middle Class Singaporeans, or at least, the title said so.

You were the TS, you said you and your wife earned average incomes. So, fine, I read all your gripes, and thought you meant well. But afterwards, other information about you came about. Combined income >$10K, 15 years of liquid cash in the bank / 15 years you can sustain your lifestyle without change.

I understand your point about inflation. $10K income now you can spend at your current level, though chilli crab meals are rarer than previously on a $10K income, and you're worried about how much your 15 years of liquid cash in the bank will be worth 15 years from now. Maybe 10 years? Maybe 8? I don't know. Maybe you're worried about how you'd afford your next car. You seem to be thrifty in some ways, and that is good.

But what I do know, is that you're probably not middle income, and probably not the average Singaporean.

Comparing yourself to someone richer and aspiring to have his level of assets is good, I look at people with nice cars and ask myself how I can achieve that.

However, do not try to pass yourself off as merely middle income and an average Singaporean / Singaporean family. You are too heavily influenced in your interactions with the HNWI or UHNWIs.. You could be at the top 3%, but you are comparing with the top 0.3%.

You do seem out of touch with the average Singaporean, at least IMHO.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by MagicFingers

You could be at the top 3%

This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Top 3% staying in a flat and almost no car. LMAO. Many bros accuse me of mis-managing costs so I revealed my savings to show that I am not. So they look for another axe to grind - accuse me of being top 3%. Hahaha. Ok, I am going to plonk my money into a property tomorrow. No savings. Kindly welcome me back to "middle class". Now you can formally re-accuse me of mis-managing. Accuse me of spending too much so I no savings. Not cost of living problem.

This is what you want, right? You did right, I screwed up, not society fault

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by Orchinno

Freedom is illusory and there's no absolute freedom. My background is in history, and all I can say is that the world as we know it and the economy and such is also illusory.

So live life happily, and never bow down to unreasonable power. If my boss try to do his beck and call, I hiu lan him. The worse he can do is fire me. I am not his slave nor property.

The freedom I refer to is financial freedom.

If you're boss fires you and it makes no difference to your life, then you have achieved financial freedom.

If your boss fires you and you can't pay the bills as a result, then you're beholden to your boss whether you like it or not.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by Orchinno

Sorry, i am not going to bother with you anymore since you don't really need need advice from us poor people.

Yes, please ignore me. I am a decrepit old man with nothing better to do ranting under the guise of anonymity. Thanks for sharing your cost and advices. I will bear your counsel in mind. See, I always like to learn. From people I agree or disagree with.

Wait, I am guaranteed anonymity here, right?!

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by davidwee

All the illegal china money raise property prices, even those tiny ass studio apartment super expensive in geylang.

A good point. A bro mentioned QE. I think its low interest rates. Yours is probably the biggest reason. Hot money from China. The wealthy in China are spreading their wings. Good luck to us all.

[MagicFingers]

Originally Posted by MoJoe313

This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Top 3% staying in a flat and almost no car. LMAO. Many bros accuse me of mis-managing costs so I revealed my savings to show that I am not. So they look for another axe to grind - accuse me of being top 3%. Hahaha. Ok, I am going to plonk my money into a property tomorrow. No savings. Kindly welcome me back to "middle class". Now you can formally re-accuse me of mis-managing. Accuse me of spending too much so I no savings. Not cost of living problem.

This is what you want, right? You did right, I screwed up, not society fault

You can't take it when people disagree with you. I didn't say you are in the top 3%, i said you could be in the top 3% but you are comparing yourself with people in the top 0.3%. It's always a comparison thing. I could have said you could be in the top 10% and are comparing yourself with the top 1% and my meaning would be exactly the same.

If you'd like to twist my words, nothing I'd say will be right, least not to you. If you understood me wrongly, just ask.

Besides, what's with the almost no car? You either have a car or don't have one, and right now, you do have one, although if I remember correctly, it is about 9 years old, so you might have to either renew COE or get a new car.

I didn't accuse you of mismanaging your resources, if anything, I think you're doing well. But all the same, you are not exactly middle of the middle class. Maybe if you reveal more, we'll find out you have other properties (aside from one that you are residing in right now) that are being rented out too, yes? No? Or maybe other assets like gold or stocks.

[MoJoe313]

Originally Posted by MagicFingers

Maybe if you reveal more, we'll find out you have other properties (aside from one that you are residing in right now) that are being rented out too, yes? No? Or maybe other assets like gold or stocks.

Da fark lah! Cb. You guys damn funny. Make me laugh till I fall down. Na bay. Now you all want to check whether I got gold bars under my bed?? Oi, can serious a bit or not? We talking whether cost of living here high. Just answer the question lah.

[sadfa]

Cost of living is indeed high bt its becoming farcical fr a millionaire with liquid cash, which likely you have, moaning bt it.

This is like those caricatures on tv of millionaires scrooging when they have a choice not to. We don't

And you keep saying There're filthy rich in spore.
No doubt. Bt do u know There are t very poor too, esp in comparison to you?