14-year-old jumps to his death after unaccompanied police interrogation for Molest

[countryman]

Originally Posted by kuasimi

You want to play Judge and God to proclaim the boy as guilty? Any evidence? Even the police did not have clear evidence that why need to interrogate the boy.

You dont know Singapore legal system follow the UK Legal System of innocent until proven guilty ?

You following CCP China Legal System or Qing Dynasty Legal Codes? Guilty until proven innocent.

Even CHC Kong Hee was innocent of all charges until recent guilty verdict given by the Judge.

As long as Police cannot produce the self-proclaimed CCTV of boy molesting girl and the video recording of police interrogation, nobody can issue any verdict on who is at fault.

It is useless, talk until tomorrow also like that lah! The most u can do is KPKB here only.
Life goes on,a few months down the road, this matter will soon be forgotten!

[countryman]

Originally Posted by sadfa

Do what investigation? Who order? You?
No investigation ok.
If you fucked up, will u investigate yourself for fucking up?

Even if Benjamin jumped off the police building, they'll investigate how he got access not how he was interrogated.

This is wad happens when this bunch of fuckers are voted in. Good luck

Be grateful of what u have here in Singapore!
Just be law abiding, work hard n u will have a comfortable life..No point only know how to KPKB about gahmen!
Not happy, go live in Myanmar or Philippines! Very good system they have there....

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by countryman

Be grateful of what u have here in Singapore!
Just be law abiding, work hard n u will have a comfortable life..No point only know how to KPKB about gahmen!
Not happy, go live in Myanmar or Philippines! Very good system they have there....

Be grateful for what? Was your boss ever grateful for your work?

Everybody is like the Government who are paid a salary to do a good job. Besides PAP was rewarded each elections with votes past 50 years, so why mention gratefulness?

You stay in North Korea too long? Every North Korean are 'grateful' to the Kim family for creating a North Korean 'paradise'.

Why bring in Third World countries for this case? Any similiarities and linkages?

You are out of point. Whatever you commented have no bearing on this case at all.

Why need to leave Singapore if you complain about the Government? Singapore is our country, not the PAP's country.

You want a country that is pointless to complain about the Government and force to leave the country, then North Korea, China, ISIS are suitable countries for you. Many left these countries because they cannot complain about the Government.

You stooping so low to defend PAP and SPF. Is this your First World education? Now we know the low quality of PAP voters.

I guess Sadfa was right. I can see PAP supporters are pushing every blame to the dead boy and his family. The school, rules, regulations and SPF have zero responsibilities.

[countryman]

I dunno about u! But i am grateful n contented here!
U KPKB till cows come home also useless. If u want to live here, Lan Lan u will still have to follow the system in Singapore like it or not! If u are so capable, go live in Australia, USA or North Korea....
Signing off here, not gona waste my time with u here!
Lol......

[sadfa]

Originally Posted by BlickBassy

Bo arrest no need read rights. Just drink Kopi(with milk)and scare the shit out of the kid's pants. Juveniles need to accompanied by Guardians one. The kid must have decided his life has game over. A social service person can also be on hand to figure the pscho health of the kid. Maybe the process needs to be redefined for kid cases. The deceased family can take legal actions if the case was mishandled (note :discussion without prejudice or malice n for academic excellence only).

Please la.

Even lawyers cant accompany an interrogation, you think parents n social service can accompany?

I bet they've a field day interrogating mentally challenged persons. After 3 hours, they'll confess to all the crimes including assassinating jfk.

The rot has always been there.
It takes a case like this to show spore is a fucked country. Repent la n stand by this garbagement for the next 50 years. By then Your kids are scheduled to go jail even when they're in kindergarten.

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by countryman

I dunno about u! But i am grateful n contented here!
U KPKB till cows come home also useless. If u want to live here, Lan Lan u will still have to follow the system in Singapore like it or not! If u are so capable, go live in Australia, USA or North Korea....
Signing off here, not gona waste my time with u here!
Lol......

You are saying citizens at Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Europe, South Korea, USA etc are not contented because they regularly change governments and complain about their governments?

Do you know these countries are more developed than Singapore and whatever Singapore has, these countries have much more.

I am not sure but I think your brain is stir fried by PAP until thinking Singapore is the centre of the universe and all creations. PAP is your God. It makes no sense.

People like you will be the first to surrender when war comes since you blindly obey anyone that is in power. Singapore cannot rely on people like you in crisis.You make NS look redundant and yet you support PAP. Ironic and hypocrite. Lol.

You should live in North Korea, your mentality suits there especially your 'not happy, can leave the country' mentality.

Your PAP is beyond and above criticisms. PAP are your deities and Gods.

But the issue here is not political but SPF and Northview Secondary School. So all your points are pointless.

[sadfa]

Originally Posted by kuasimi

The issue here is not whether boy is guilty or not. This is only for the Judge and legal process to decide.

The issue is whether how the school and SPF handled the boy was right or wrong.

Why was the boy who was a minor interrogated alone without parents or lawyers present?

What happened during police interrogation? Was the boy coerce or ill-treated to a point his mental state became abnormal?

Why did the school allow the boy to be arrested in the middle of the school time, embarassing the boy in front of his peers and subsequently proclaim the boy guilty by disallowed him to go to the school camp?

The entire process had more wrongs than rights.

Once again your posts epic fail.
Where's your cb analysis? Where!!!

The police set up Benjamin.
It's a non seizable offence. I bet there's no warrant.
So they go to school to catch cos parents not there.

And the school failed Benjamin.
The principal blindly follow authority. Never think.
Where's his responsibility for Benjamin?

If the principal told the 5 cops he's responsible for Benjamin at school n ask them to produce warrant, they lppl. They won't expect it

And if he called Benjamins parents down, the police will lose their advantage. And its unlikely theyll tekan Benjamin for 3 hours if parents waiting outside n with support, its unlikely he will kill himself later.

The principal should just resign.
He just gave away children under his charge when ppl ask.

This is similar to those principals giving away their children when authorities came to take them away to work overseas for their poor families.

What's the work you ask? Comfort women.

What did this principal do?
He told Benjamin to eat his bread before sending him to his eventual doom n death. This guy will be judged when he dies.

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by rooneyrocks

The family whether rich or poor should ask more questions to get closure.
And why our mps are not asking questions?

Since the deceased is from Yishun, you can direct the questions to his PAP MPs from Nee Soon GRC who then can question SPF on behalf of their constituents.

If fail, direct the same questions at Minister of Home Affairs who oversees SPF.

Same questions should be ask of the Minister of Education who oversees the secondary school too.

So far, all very quiet about the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nee_So...n_Constituency


K. Shanmugam
Henry Kwek
Lee Bee Wah
Muhammad Faishal Ibrahim
Ng Kok Kwang Louis


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minist...irs_(Singapore)


Ministers responsible

K Shanmugam, Minister
Desmond Lee, Senior Minister of State
Amrin Amin, Parliamentary Secretary


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minist...ion_(Singapore)


Ministers responsible

Ng Chee Meng, Acting Minister for Education (Schools)
Ong Ye Kung, Acting Minister for Education (Higher Education and Skills)
Janil Puthucheary, Minister of State
Muhammad Faishal bin Ibrahim, Parliamentary Secretary
Low Yen Ling, Parliamentary Secretary

[kuasimi]

Police to review procedures on police interviews with minors

By onlinecitizen on February 1, 2016 Current Affairs

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016...s-with-minors/

http://forums.$$$$$$$$$$$$.com.sg/ea...s-5294393.html


http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapo...view-procedure

The Singapore Police Force (SPF) broke its silence on the death of Benjamin Lim, a 14-year-old male student with a public statement on Monday evening.

Lim was under the investigation for an alleged outrage of modesty. Shortly after returning home with his mother and sister from the police station, he locked himself in his room and jumped out the window to his death.

In its statement, SPF said it would be reviewing its procedures on the accompaniment of an appropriate adult to be present during the police interview of a minor.

The police also said that it had met the family to clarify the actions of the police officers during their interaction with Benjamin.

TOC understands that the family have met the police on Monday morning, however, was shocked from the details of the meeting. The police had shared details of the interview process and other aspect of the case with the family.

To understand more about the case, please read the interview with the family on what transpired on the day.


Police Statement on Death of 14-Year-Old Male Student Under Investigation for Outrage of Modesty


SINGAPORE — The Singapore Police Force today (Feb 1) delivered a statement regarding the death of a 14-year-old male student who had been under investigation for outrage of modesty.

In the statement, the Police said it would be reviewing its procedures on whether to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed.

STATEMENT IN FULL:

Police Statement on Death of 14-Year-Old Male Student Under Investigation for Outrage of Modesty

In this case, a Police report was lodged about a molestation. Based on CCTV evidence, Police officers went to conduct enquiries at a school. To keep investigations discreet, the officers went in plainclothes and in unmarked cars. After discussions with the school officials, and the viewing of the CCTV records, Benjamin was identified as the boy in the CCTV records. He was brought to the Principal’s office by a school official and was spoken with in the presence of a Police officer. Before he was brought back to Ang Mo Kio Division, he contacted his mother to inform her of the Police’s investigations. The Police officer also spoke to the mother.

While at Ang Mo Kio Division, he was interviewed by one Investigation Officer at his workstation in an open plan office with other workstations. He was fully cooperative during the interview. He was then released on bail and went back with his mother.

The Police have been asked whether it should review the procedure to allow an appropriate adult to be present when a young person is interviewed. The Police will review and address this issue.

Police investigations have not been completed. A Coroner’s Inquiry will be held upon the conclusion of investigations, where all the relevant facts will be presented to the State Coroner. At the inquiry, the family will also be able to raise all questions that they may have.

Benjamin’s passing was tragic. The Police have expressed their deepest condolences to the family. They have met the family to address their questions on the case and provide clarifications on the actions of the Police officers during their interaction with Benjamin.

[demonhunter]

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

[kuasimi]

Police, CNB to consult on video-recording of police interviews


http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2015...ce-interviews/



By theonlinecitizen on July 22, 2015 Current Affairs


The Singapore Police Force (SPF) and the Central Narcotics Bureau (CNB) will commence consultations on the Video Recording of Interviews (VRI) during investigations, with the view to start a pilot of VRI from the first quarter of 2016.

The authorities said this in a press release on Wednesday, 22 July.

The statement said the consultation is part of the Government’s commitment “to an effective and fair criminal justice system.”

“The feasibility study looked at how VRI has been adopted in the US, UK, Australia and Hong Kong and how the various models of VRI adopted have impacted on their administration of criminal justice,” the statement said. “The inter-agency workgroup found that while Singapore’s existing criminal investigation processes are robust, the implementation of VRI in Singapore will further strengthen confidence in the integrity of our criminal justice system and assist the Courts to try cases more effectively.”

It added that the implementation of VRI will provide the Courts with a video recording of the interview.

“This will allow the Courts to take the interviewee’s demeanour into account in determining the admissibility or weight to be accorded to the interviewee’s statement. It will also provide an objective contemporaneous account of the interview process and allow the Courts to decide on allegations that may be made about the interview.”

The pilot will involve a limited set of offences and allow for an assessment of the impact on investigations, its effectiveness in different situations, and the resources required before a decision is made on a broader implementation of VRI.

“It is envisaged that the pilot will be conducted under the existing legal framework,” the statement said.




Sylvia Lim



The move is a reversal of the government’s position in the past when it rejected calls to introduce VRI, particularly in 2008 when the call was made by then Non-constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP) Sylvia Lim.

Ms Lim, who is currently the MP for Aljunied GRC and had served in the police force previously, had said that the practice in Australian states, the UK and several states in the US have proved to be good for both the prosecution as well as the defence.

“For the prosecution, it protects police officers from groundless accusations that they mistreated the suspect or did not accurately record what the suspect said,” Ms Lim explained in Parliament then.

“Video recording in other countries was found to have saved lots of Police and court time as more accused persons decided to plead guilty after watching the video recordings,” she said. “For the defence, video recording helped to ensure that there was no mistreatment of the accused during the statement recording and that the record accurately reflected what the accused said. The technology for video recording is now relatively accessible and inexpensive. If adopted, this practice will encourage all to maintain high standards in law enforcement.”

However, Ms Lim’s suggestion was shot down by the then Senior Minister of State (Law), Ho Peng Kee.

Mr Ho said that the introduction of the VRI in other countries was because of the “loss of public confidence in the police” there.





Ho Peng Kee


“So the crux of the matter lies in whether Singaporeans have trust and confidence in our legal system and our Police Force. On both counts, this is the case,” Mr Ho said. “Our criminal justice system is reputed for its clean administration, impartiality and efficiency, and the public has trust and confidence in our Police Force.”

Mr Ho also said that the onus was on the suspect to tell the truth.

“Ultimately, the bottom-line is for the suspect to ‘tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth’,” Mr Ho said. “He should do so even without any videotaping.”

Ms Lim, in her reply, pressed home the point that sometimes accused persons are convicted based on their confessions alone and this was one reason why VRI would be important.


Ms Lim said:

“A lot of weight is given to the statement and, hence, I do not quite understand why the Ministry is not willing to consider video recording because it would at least be an accurate record of what happened during the statement-taking process, whether the contents came from the accused’s mouth or were paraphrases, for example, by the investigating officer because he felt it was more appropriate. Because certain nuances in the language can be very important, can be given much weight during the trial itself. So, I do not quite understand why the Ministry is resistant to this idea.”

Prof Ho stood his grounds and said there was already “an established process” whereby the validity of a statement by the accused can be verified or be thrown out by the Courts.

[kuasimi]

Originally Posted by demonhunter

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

Maybe he should.

[sadfa]

Originally Posted by demonhunter

Review ki tua lan

let the 14yr old boy visit the ppl which screwed him up !

Review is wayang la. Coroner inquiry waste time.

I bet 100% police n school nt held responsible.
Benjamin jump is becos he can't handle pressure.
End of the day, his life n death got no meaning.
Fuck those cb.
Hope Benjamin haunt the cb principal n police till they die

[thickhead]

What's the point of expressing deepest condolences?

Everyone involved should be investigated in an inquiry.
If their handling is proper, they should be absolved.
If not, proper disciplinary action should be taken.
The principal of the school should also explain why he allowed the boy to be taken away.

And yet, no amount of investigations can bring the boy back.
I hope his death will knock some sense into the heads of those high up in their ivory towerrs.

I have a son in secondary school. I can feel the pain experienced by the parents. But I do not have anything to say to them. Because nothing we say can lessen their pain and loss.

To countryman: hope you rot in hell for your careless initial remarks :-(

[kuasimi]

Teens may not know their legal rights: Teen death in Yishun raises issue

http://news.asiaone.com/news/singapo...n-raises-issue


Should parents or guardians be present when the police question a young accused person?

The issue surfaced after a 14-year-old boy's death in Yishun on Tuesday.

The Secondary 3 boy was being investigated for molest before he fell from his 14th-storey window. He had been taken into police custody and released on bail on the same day of his death.


His mother said he had admitted to the crime during the police interview.

But when she later probed him, she said he told her: "I did not do it, but since everyone thinks that I did it, then I did it."

We are not identifying the boy, his family or his school as he was a minor.


His parents want to know why he was questioned by the police without their presence.Shouldn't parents or guardians be present when a young accused person is questioned by the police?According to current practice, there is no need for it to be so.

Said ambassador for the National Crime Prevention Council, Mr Lionel de Souza: "A police investigation is about searching for the truth. Having a parent in the same room with the accused would hamper this search, because they will not be neutral parties.

"Currently, there is no legal requirement for parents, guardians or legal counsel to be present in the interview room when a minor is involved."It is not like in American television, where suspects are shown to refuse to speak until their lawyer is there," he said.

If the minor is deemed by the investigation officer to be emotionally unstable, he can call for a counsellor to be present during the interview."But never the parents. If there is reason to doubt whether the accused was coerced or not, this can be brought up by lawyers in court," added the 73-year-old former policeman.

VIDEO

Starting this year, the Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) will also pilot the video recording of interviews during investigation, the Ministry said previously.This was in response to MPs and lawyers who have called for such video recordings of how law enforcement officers take statements.

"This will allow the courts to take the interviewee's demeanour into account in determining the admissibility or weight to be accorded to the interviewee's statement," MHA said. Lawyers who spoke to The New Paper feel that more should be done in cases of accused minors.

Veteran lawyer Amolat Singh believes the "default position" should be to assume that a minor does not understand his situation properly because of his level of maturity.Said Mr Singh: "Children are very vulnerable. If teachers and principals can terrify a child, how do you think they would react to a police officer?

"Being called up by the police is a terrifying situation for them. Kids will say whatever they think the police want to hear to get out of the situation."

Although a programme exists for young or vulnerable witnesses or victims of a crime, it does not apply to minors who are accused of a crime.Known as the Witness Support Programme, volunteers will give emotional support to witnesses who are under 18 or have a mental capacity of a person under 18.

Something similar should be extended to a young accused person, suggested Mr Singh.

Lawyer Terence Seah of Virtus Law agreed: "Young persons might not know their rights and might be subject to unfair pressure from the police if they choose to do so.

It would be helpful for the parents to be present."In a case like this boy's, Dr Lim Boon Leng, a psychiatrist at Dr BL Lim Centre for Psychological Wellness, believes there is a difference between young children and teenagers in such situations.

Dr Lim said: "Young children may be easily intimidated but for teenagers, it is difficult to say as there are many factors. Teenagers can be highly independent or dependent on adults."It is also in the interest of the police to make the interview comfortable for children and teen witnesses as this allows them to record accurate statements, he said.

A better way to prevent a conflict of interest with investigators would be for an accused minor to know that their parents or guardians are in the vicinity, said child psychiatrist Brian Yeo.Said Dr Yeo: "They do not specifically have to be in the same room as their child, but be nearby.


At the very least, their proximity would help reassure their child."Of course, authorities should also be mindful of what they say to the child too."The bedroom where the teenager jumped down from.

School: We were discreet, supportive

The boy's school had sought to minimise any embarrassment caused to him when he was taken away by the police, said its principal.Speaking to his parents and the school, The New Paper pieced together what had happened before the incident.

On Jan 26, about five policemen in civilian clothes arrived at the principal's office during recess time and asked to speak to the boy.The school principal said: "When the plainclothes police officers came to the school, we were discreet in bringing the student to the office to meet with the police."He also ensured that the boy was able to finish his meal before he was taken to the police station.

It was at this time that the boy's mother received a call from a police officer using her son's mobile phone.She told TNP: "I was shocked because I don't believe my son could do such a thing. He was such a filial and obedient boy."The boy later left with the police in an unmarked car, at a time when the other students were in class, said the principal.

He added: "Throughout the process, we were mindful that as a young student, he would be frightened and we strove to give him as much emotional support as possible."

A police spokesman said the boy was not handcuffed throughout his time with the police.They had visited the school "to establish the identify of a student who was captured on closed-circuit television footage at the lift lobby of an HDB block", said the spokesman.

The boy, an accomplished National Police Cadet Corps cadet, was also looking forward to attending a three-day school camp in Malaysia for his Secondary 3 cohort the next day.

STAY CLOSE

At around 3pm, his mother said she received a call from the school counsellor who advised that her son should stay close to his parents rather than be away at camp.

They agreed, and his mother later told the boy that he would not be attending the camp.A while later, the boy quietly locked himself in his bedroom and fell to his death from the window.

The principal said: "The school is deeply saddened by our student's passing. He was a good student who was well-liked by staff and schoolmates."His well-being was always topmost in our minds."

The boy was cremated on Thursday afternoon.


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