Wife & Sex - going through the motion

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by purple001

Maybe it's a shift of priorities / motherly instinct etc that kids well being comes first. It does not mean that there is no more love / lesser love towards the hubby.

Hi sis...

I agree with what you said...90% of it anyway...

The quoted part is the part I disagree with...

It is a shift of focus on the woman's part...but think about it from the guy's point of view...
He was her complete focus before the marriage...say 70%, 30% on work and other things...then comes marriage...he drops to maybe 50%...more on her career now since they have settled down...ok, most guys can accept that...because comes the weekend, he goes back to 65-75% of her total focus...

Then comes a child...he drops to 5% if he is lucky...usually, it's 0%.

How should he take that??

The worse thing is...he sees no hope of getting back to 70%...

I have spoken with empty nesters...the children are grown and gone...they only have each other...yet...because of the years of neglect (not saying its her fault entirely, but guys do not recover from being neglected very well...we just change focus too...usually years before the empty-nester days...)...it will never be the same...they have gotten used to their separate lives...only very very few lucky ones can still be lovey dovey then...
(my grand parents lived together till their passing...but I know she detested him, hatred is not too harsh a word to use - hey, they have 14 children together...my parents lived together till his passing, and she is still talking bad about him now...just slightly worse than when I was growing up...I don't know how the men felt but men of that generation didn't talk about emotion or feelings, at least not to a kid...)



Why wouldn't women magazines...which attempt to teach women everything from make up to sex....teach new mothers about this??

Guys are not usually that greedy...5% won't cut it...but we do understand that the child takes priority...give us 30%...maybe 50% on weekends...
With this, guys will appreciate the effort and in turn, shower more tenderness at the wife and the good cycle continues...

Yes...won't work for everyone but if 60% of married men are happier...women will notice...word of mouth transfer of this 'knowledge' will increase the number of happy husbands...hence happier families...



It is a myth that men only want sex...we want attention and tenderness too...if a woman has been telling me off all day about not helping with the baby simply because she thinks that the baby can only be taken care of in one way...her way...and therefore I am constantly screwing up when I am trying to help...I won't feel like having sex with her that night...regardless of how sexy she is...and guess what...I also don't feel like being nice to an unreasonable person...despite my love for that person...at least not for that moment...AND...I will avoid helping so I won't have to screw up...

And the bad cycle continues...


It does take two hands to clap and I am not saying the husband is blameless...but in our defence...the woman started it when the baby arrived...

Ask any woman to go from getting 100% of someone's attention to close to zero %...she will freak out too no matter how you explain it to her...

The need for affection is not a logical matter so men are as vulnerable as women in suffering from a loss of it...


Sorry sis...not expecting you to have answers to my rantings...I'm just writing as thoughts come to me from your post....

Cheers for discussing the with us...really appreciate your input...

.

[analog]

Madam Purple:

Have taken what you said and broken it up a bit. See below

"To answer yr qn- I am an woman. But take note that every women react differently to situations like these."
And every man reacts different to the play ground being closed as well. Some can take it for a very long time, some leave after a month, some just get a mistress. We're all individuals.

"I've have tried marriage counselling prior to my divorce, but my focus wasn't on the intimacy part then. But given the same scenario, if my ex were to tell me that one of my wifey duties is to have sex with my hubby, I may not agree totally."
Then what is your duty? He had and propbably still has plenty of guys friends, we all do. Men do not get married for friendship, they already have that. They get married for intimacy with a woman. If there is also friendship that happens, that is great but its not the main motivator for a guy, sex is. Now, you can sugar coat this with lots of pretty metaphors and what not but when you boil away the fat, what's left is what I said, its true. Men marry for sex.

"Deep in my heart I'll prob be think- damn, I've spend x years of my youth with u, bore u kids, take care of u and the house etc, and all u can think of its just sex ???"
Ok, this is 'boiler plate' western raised women speak.
First, sex is not all he thinks of but, you are is wife. Aren't you the one he's suppose to be thinking of in terms of sex? Why are you not flattered? Think of all the women whose husbands don't want to touch them anymore, yours did and how did that work out? Isn't it romantic for him to want you? When you were courting you used this 'wanting' to your advantage, no? It all depends on how you look at it. I'd caution you on taking the western liberated female line on this stuff because that leaves you old and alone.

You bore him kids. Hmmmm......
Ok, I'm going to drop a bomb here but as I've already stated life is messy and so is the truth so here it is.
Ladies, every woman can have kids. Believe it or not, that DOES NOT make you special, it makes you the same as every other woman. Its what you are doing when you are NOT in the delivery room that makes you special, the delivery room makes you the same. And, lets also point out one more reality, YOU also wanted the kids. Now, if you want to tie yourself up in konts and drive yourself crazy, go ahead and think like this, its a free world.

"Likely it will make me angrier and felt so unappreciated."
Unappriciated? Your husband wants to have sex with you, not the neighbour, not the PYT across the street, but with you and you feel unappreciated? Up to you purple.

"Yep, it's part and parcel of marriage life, I do not deny that."
No, its not. For a man it IS married life. Put down the cosmopolitan magazine and wake up. Its important for men to appriciate that woman don't think like men but it is also important for women to appriciate that men don't think like women. He married you for sex which leads to a family which leads to a nice life together. Sex is the glue that binds it. No sex, it falls apart.

"But this can only happen if my mind is willing., and i am ready. Dont expect it to be like before immediately, give some time allowance. For many women (yes, many.), our priorities changed once kids arrive."
We are all aware of that.

"Maybe it's a shift of priorities / motherly instinct etc that kids well being comes first. It does not mean that there is no more love / lesser love towards the hubby."
Wrong. I've already explained to you, if you don't have sex with your husband, in his mind, you do not love him. Its that simple. Maternal love to your children is not the same as the love for your husband. Look, if you take the westernized feminazi point of view on this, the human race is finished. Both of my grandmothers had 8 kids. Do you really believe my grandfathers wooooed them, got them in the mood, poured wine, put on a romantic Frank Se$$$$$ album, etc. Are you kidding? They lived on farms with no electricity, washed clothes by beating them with sticks, read by candle light, clothed babies in old men's shirts, milked cows at 5am etc.... They had NO modernized amenities like running water, flush toilets, washing machines, vacumes, disposable diapers, etc....and yet, they had eight children. You don't get eight children by holding hands. Did my grandmothers moan and groan about shifting priorities? Moan about hormone levels? They had those children because they made love to their husbands because that is what a wife does. That is how it is.

"Not that case. Hormonal or what, maybe. At this point of time, the focus will be on other things, children, career, housework etc. The need for sex changed to something that is less needed."
For you yes, for husband no. If you don't have sex with him, in his mind, you don't love him. Its simple.

"A counselling session may work for some as I've mentioned earlier, Can try, but take note of the risks of being backfired. Double edge sword, it may break or mend the missing part in the couple's life. Congrats if it's successful, only you guys know whether yr wifey is the receptive kind. Sex only come when the moment, feeling is right, the need is there. Ultimatum or not, its yr choice. "
Nonsense! If you're at couselling its already broken dear. If things were fine, you wouldn't be there. You either mend up or head to the lawyers.

"Spend some time having a real heart to heart talk, don't jump into the sex part yet."
That is what the cousellor facilitates. They get you talking.

"Talk abt the younger carefree days before marriage, the beautiful memories you both shared and how u would like to grow old with her. Make it touching and romantic as much as possible. Nvr ever grumble abt how deprived or upset u r with her for the lack of sex."
There were times when my wife didn't let me touch her for 15 months at a stretch and I put up with it. I'm embarrassed about that even today. No sex for 15 months is FUCKING BULLSHIT!!! It should have been divorce but I stuck around until my head exploded and the rest is history. Never grumble about no sex? Agree, straight to couselling or divorce court. I would never put up with the shit I did again, NEVER.

"If the feeling is right, intimacy will come to u, and if u r successful, then talk abt the conditions on how u would wish to have it x times a week etc. It goes a long way."
If the feeling is right? PUT THE COSMO DOWN, will you? The feeling was right for both my grandmothers? Oh really? The feeling? This is real life, not some sort of story book.....the feeling? Oh man.....

So you think sex in marriage is optional? Is breathing optional too?

You're divorced sis, and this may sound mean but I can see why. Not that your X was any sort of angel, I'm sure he wasn't but from what you've written here.....its better for you both.

Pretty hard hitting stuff but Cheers anyway,
Jim

[queeniegal]

Hot thread! But I still believe if a is a push n pull factor.

If wife push him away he go find other ways to hv it.
If hubby push wife away wife also can do the same things.

So at times when come to divorce can't really blame everything to guy.

My grandpa hv 1 wife. 4 mistress Haha.. My granny how fierce and cold.
But eventually he still come back to my granny.

Granny talk bad on grandpa. Grandpa just smile n blink at me.
FYI my grandpa is very soft spoken biz man ha.. Attracts all the woman. 4 other wifey are those died husband, or run away with kids. My grandpa take care of them and develop feeling and well are they on bed relationship I'm nt sure but I guess have lo..

My grandpa treat me very well, dote me very much. Always tell me guys are quite simple if they are in love with you. Just don't push them away.

Anw all passed away... Sometimes when married friend tell me their hubby eat out I ponder abit. But again there really some guy out to play and just want the thrills.

Just my 2 cents worths ha see the thread so tension lol lighten bit

[Frankiestine]

Originally Posted by analog

Bro:

Of course she hit the roof. Read what you wrote. You confided in another female, not a guy friend or a cousellor, another female. What did you expect? Congradulations? Another female is a THREAT to your wife...you have to stop thinking like a guy or you're not going to get anywhere. You go to MCYS and see a coucellor your wife will NOT hit the roof. A cousellour is not a threat to her because its the coucellor's job and the coucellor works for MCYS.

Guys, stop using logic, your wife is a woman, not a guy.

Cheers,
jim

Well if you know my wife then you will understand my situation. For her, the only principle she is guided by in life is, "if the shoe don't fit then throw it away"...likewise if this marriage is not right then just leave it...even if the counsellor is a guy and trying to mediate in our marriage,she will feel threaten in the sense that someone a outsider has to teach her how to run her life..i have stop rationlalizing why she does this and that and take life as it comes, no expectation no hope...

[kuasimi]

Sex Matters


Where is your spiritual family?

Written by Dr Martha Lee

http://publichouse.sg/categories/sex-matters


As the only sexologist in Singapore, my work is incredibly isolating. I have joined several virtual communities for sexologists including those on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Yahoo, as well as the listserv managed by American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists (AASECT).

I wonder if you have a community of likeminded people supporting you in the work that you do. Whilst they are not your birth-family, you can still feel close to them, hence the term “spiritual family.”

In his book, Rich Brother, Rich Sister, Robert Kiyosaki suggested that you ask these four questions to find your spiritual family:


1) What am I willing to give up my life to? The moment you begin to find your answers, you will begin to find your spiritual family.

2) The second step involves a series of questions:

• If money were no object, would I continue to work at my job?

• If money were no object, would I work at my job for free?

• If the answers are “No” to the first two questions, then what would you work at forever and for free?

• If you are not willing to work forever and for free, then the chances are you have not yet found your soul’s purpose for your life. If there is something else you would rather do, maybe you should do it.

3) The third set of questions revolves around relationships:

• Am I working with people I love as much as I love my biological family?

• Do I respect the people I am working with?

• Do I trust the people I work with to have my best interests at heart?

• Is the product or service of the company I work for a product or service I am proud to produce?

4) The fourth and most important step strengthens your spirit, and is the difference between success and failure, and that is to work for free. When you give your gift to a higher purpose it strengthens your spirit. The more you give, the more blessings will come your way.

Needless to say, sexology is my higher calling. I do this work because this is what I am meant to be doing. I would do this work even if money was an issue, and I would do it forever. I already do it for free on some occasions. There is a dire need for real, meaningful, and positive conversations about sex and sexuality in Asia.

So do you have your spiritual family? What would it take for you to find yours?



Dr Martha Lee


Dr Martha Lee is Founder and Clinical Sexologist of Eros Coaching in Singapore. She is a certified sexuality educator with AASECT (American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists), as well as certified sexologist with ACS (American College of Sexologists). She holds a Doctorate in Human Sexuality from Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality as well as certificates in practical counselling, life coaching and sex therapy. She is available to provide sexuality and intimacy coaching for individuals and couples, conduct sexual education workshops and speak at public events in Asia. For more, visit www.eroscoaching.com.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Frankiestine

Well if you know my wife then you will understand my situation. For her, the only principle she is guided by in life is, "if the shoe don't fit then throw it away"...likewise if this marriage is not right then just leave it...even if the counsellor is a guy and trying to mediate in our marriage,she will feel threaten in the sense that someone a outsider has to teach her how to run her life..i have stop rationlalizing why she does this and that and take life as it comes, no expectation no hope...

Bro Frankie:

You have some choices to make. I feel for you, I was at the cliff's edge about 18 months ago and did what I did and I'm still married and things are MUCH-MUCH better.

Once you reach the end of your rope, you'll konw what to do.

In general, if a womand detects weakness in you she won't respect you.

Wishing you the best bro.

Cheers,
Jim

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by analog

Bro Frankie:

You have some choices to make. I feel for you, I was at the cliff's edge about 18 months ago and did what I did and I'm still married and things are MUCH-MUCH better.

Once you reach the end of your rope, you'll konw what to do.

In general, if a womand detects weakness in you she won't respect you.

Wishing you the best bro.

Cheers,
Jim

Yes bro Frankie...I agree with bro Jim here...

It's is exactly what I said before...once a man has stared divorce in the face and feel no fear...then he is ready to seriously talk to the wife, and 'force her hand' with what you deem reasonable in your marriage...and from there, the marriage can be revitalised or be pronounced dead.

Either ways is better than being stuck in limbo with no end in sight.

Bro Jim and I come from differing sides but I believe we both understand what is at stake and the end game if we want our spouse to really communicate with us and take our views seriously.

Best of luck bro...

.

[Frankiestine]

Originally Posted by analog

Bro Frankie:

You have some choices to make. I feel for you, I was at the cliff's edge about 18 months ago and did what I did and I'm still married and things are MUCH-MUCH better.

Once you reach the end of your rope, you'll konw what to do.

In general, if a womand detects weakness in you she won't respect you.

Wishing you the best bro.

Cheers,
Jim

Thanks bro so far it has not reached the breaking point for me yet...perhaps my age has mellowed me down...used to have a lot of fire and fight in me but after what I have gone through these past years, I look at it from a rather queer way of calling it but "philosophical" way of looking at my life..how certain actions I had done is now coming back to hit back in my face..almost just like karma...that why I have learn to take things easy..

[Wizrd]

Originally Posted by Frankiestine

Thanks bro so far it has not reached the breaking point for me yet...perhaps my age has mellowed me down...used to have a lot of fire and fight in me but after what I have gone through these past years, I look at it from a rather queer way of calling it but "philosophical" way of looking at my life..how certain actions I had done is now coming back to hit back in my face..almost just like karma...that why I have learn to take things easy..

Bro...I feel sad for you but you should not think like this...

Sex, like food and water is basic necessity to sustain life...
I can see how you believe karma is causing you all this...but karma cannot be used when it is the basic needs...we have to fight to get those needs filled.

Got that lemon new car...karma, yes...didn't strike toto...karma, yes...share market crash after going in big...karma, maybe...
Even then, we can do something about it...to fix it shomehow...

But sex and communication with wife is not karma...it is cause and effect...if we don't try...it will never get better...

Bro...I urge you to give it at least a few more tries before giving up...you cannot live the rest of your life like this bro...

.

[analog]

Originally Posted by Frankiestine

Thanks bro so far it has not reached the breaking point for me yet...perhaps my age has mellowed me down...used to have a lot of fire and fight in me but after what I have gone through these past years, I look at it from a rather queer way of calling it but "philosophical" way of looking at my life..how certain actions I had done is now coming back to hit back in my face..almost just like karma...that why I have learn to take things easy..

Bro Frankie:

You are very normal. I went through this rationalization phase for many years, you think you can deal with it. Go for a massage once in a while, get a HJ from some stranger, takes the heat off, you're fine for a week, and then it all comes back. You're scared you won't be able to see the kids anymore, all sorts of things go through your mind. Then the depression really gets to you and something snaps. When that happens, you will know what to do.

Take care bro.

Cheers,
jim

[Metzloff]

@Madam Purple

Sorry, I just have to respond to some of your comments about "spending the best years of your life with your husband, bearing him children, looking after the house etc"

Didn't HE spend the same "best years " of HIS life with you as well ?

Didn't He work to pay for the house and support the family ? Or does only doing housework "count" and not the work involved to pay the mortgage ?

And as for bearing him children... well, I presume that you wanted your children as much as your husband. Or did you NOT want your children and only agree to be impregnated by him on condition that he then support you for the rest of your life. Hey, sister, half the genes in those kids are YOURS !

[purple001]

Hey hey, chill bros out there. Understand yr frustrations, and reasons why you guys just have to comment. Nothing wrong with them ive noted yr points. Maybe I've been thru a not so happy marriage (obviously, if not then why divorce right), but I have less intention of defending my pov. I mean, I can emphatise with the part on the lack of frequent sex which it is supposingly a human need. I don't deny that, but have u even really understand why.? Why the diff before n after marriage.? Could it be something men need to reflect on as well ? Maybe u are equally less attractive now? Or because u r not as sweet n caring towards for wifey now ? It works both ways right anot ? In fact, I've many married frens who shared abt how their hubbies changed aft marriage too. of cos, I must also say that it's not entirely one party's fault. That's why, something u guys need figure out too. I have couple of married guys frens too, they do tell me abt such stuff and yes, I can somehow related to their frustrations and how they were deprived of what they need.


Back to my point of counselling- my point still stands. Not that I am against counselling, but how many of the relationships actually improved after that. Sure there will be successful cases that ends happily ever after. But still there are many divorce case ard mah. The morale is- u do what u deem fit. Only u know yr wife, her character etc so that u can anticipate her response more accurately after yr so called ultimatum. If unsure, don't follow blindly.

Disclaimer- this is only my person pov. It does not apply to all female species. In case, I kena shoot again. (-_-)"

Ps- I am younger than many bros here (I think). I haven't even reach mid 30s leh, so don't address me as madam ( I know, I know, it's a form of respect or just a way of address etc)

谢谢..!

[Botakhead]

小妹妹， 你的痛苦，人生的不愉快， 我 能了解。要往前看，把烦恼抛开，快乐的为美好将来而活。祝你安康。

「Please don't worry, be happy, always.」

[bernardlee]

Hi bro,

Here are some tips for guys who found themselves in a sexless marriage:-

It works for me. Post here for your reference.

With no sex for a long time, your little head will sure explode. It will control your big head and keeps suggesting silly ideas like going to Geylang to have sex, going to massage to have HJ. If you really do eat outside, your marriage life is in danger. Make sure your wife never find out you eat outside!! No woman can tolerate her man eats outside.

Here is the interim solution to live in a dry season:

1) Sign up some gym membership
2) Go to gym and workout on a regular basis; I workout 6 days a week, an hour each session, a day to rest the muscles
3) TELL your wife why you are going to gym. BECAUSE of no sex my hormones are raging. I am sorry that I pester you for sex last time, it is all due to my silly sexual hormones. Now I am in control and need to go gym every day to exhaust my sexual homones. TELL her sincerely and honestly.
4) if you really go to gym and workout cardio for an hour almost every day, I guarantee it is much healthier and better than spending money on prostitutes. The after exercise fulfillment, satisfaction is much much better.
5) after a period of gym exercises, you can control your sexual desire much easier. At least I won't go crazy if my wife rejects me for sex. I feel more calm.
6) next change your diet to avoid taking red meats like beef, mutton etc. Eat more vegetables. This further help to control the little head from exploding.
7) Learn meditation to calm your mind. Remove the sexual thoughts.
8) After 3 months of gym session, I reduced my weight.
9) This is important too. Exercise your abs and build up the 6 packs if possible. Women love men with developed abs. I put up a few of Bruce Lee posters in my room to motivates me.
10) Go for sun tan. A darker tan looks much healthier and sexier.


You see... As a men we also need to do our part to look good and sexy. It helps your career and also attracts your woman. Let her feel the threat that you have the capability of attracting women and you are a women magnet.

The important key is as a man you must take control of the situation.

Next use bro Wizrd ultimatum method to "show hand" with my wife.

This woke her up. Now she fully believe that a man needs sex. His poor husband is "suffering" and going through the tough gym sessions because of lack of sex. I further explained to her that I am a man of high libido ( higher sex drive than the average guys) hence must go through all these extreme measures to keep the hormones in check if there is no normal sex.

You must know your wife before going the ultimatum. I know she will not take the road of divorce. First I have not done anything wrong yet. She MUST do something to mend the marriage AND accepting the point that sex is a must. Let her know that without sex for a good reason is a legal ground to divorce.

Next after slapping your wife to wake up, you must sayang her.

With all the exercises, I have higher energy and can completes more house work to help her out. Mop floor, wash dishes, vacuum, play with kid etc

Very important to shower her with love.

Before both of you sleep, try to re initiate the fire by talking about the past. Talking about the places you both went to. Bring her back to her sweet memory.
This is the harder part but is the key part to re harmonise the marriage.

It is just like the car engine is dead half way on the road, and you die die must jump start it. START THE ENGINE OF LOVE AGAIN! All women are like that: NO LOVE NO SEX. Just pour them with love and drown them, then ML with them.
THIS IS A HARD FACT. THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH IN THIS WORLD. You want some thing you just got to work for it. How sad but true.

Always remember that marriage is a marathon. You have to put in lot of efforts to make it work til the end.

[swinger38]

Well, I'm married for a good 10 years with 2 kids and I totally undrstand what you brudders went through. Allow me to share my 2 cents worth.

This is the list of things we did to relive our sex lives.

1. Watch porn together.
2. Go on single dates just like courtship days
3. Bring her out for drinks, alcohol helps to increase libido.
4. Help wife slim down and encourage her to wear some sexy outfits. Every woman wants to look good and they always enjoy attention from other men. Makes themselves feel wanted.